PROGRAM AIMAN KOMPAS TV GAME OVER: 50 TRILIUN SUAP UNTUK OKNUM APARAT PELINDUNG KONSORSIUM JUDI

The majority of online gambling players are lower-middle-class people. Ten to twenty thousand a day. If there are 155 trillion per year, it means they natural selection also occurs in journalistic products. what I mean is, shows that are considered worthy enough for us to watch. All shows need to be watched. But in some circles, at least in certain ones, they are more selective. One of them is a show called Aiman on Kompas TV, where my friends

are, and the host is right here. I came because I owe a debt of gratitude to Brother Faisal, back in 2014-2019 I often bothered him, " Brother, let's have an interview on the DPR stairs, wherever. And I have always liked you, Brother." Why? The intonation is very much Makassar. Yeah. Following the logic I built earlier, Aiman's show is sharp. Earlier before the show, Aiman explained the problems of modern journalism now, at least

those based on TV or shows like this. I liked that, what was it, what was Aiman's theory. We will talk about h which theory we will clarify later. Yes. But I want to start with this, Man . Play the first one first. Okay. Wow, the research team is pretty good. Might be worth recruiting for Aiman. 11 years of career at Kompas TV, Aiman resigns. So I think Aiman must be responsible to the people who already feel a need for his show. After that,

you want to leave. I don't know if the new place will do the same thing. But this is a brand, it's at Kompas is the name. But it's my name. Yeah. Oh, is there an agreement there? There isn't, right? It's impossible to make a new Aiman over there, right? Oh. Because there's no name Aiman on Kompas TV except me, Brother. Right? What's actually happening, Man?

No, look, I want to protest here. I am your viewer, Man. Thank you. I like these journalistic products of yours on Aiman. Because let's just get into data, facts, and logic. That's right. That's what I do. That's it. Why stop a show that many people like, or even leave? Leaving can happen in the world of professional TV, that's possible. But losing a show that provides political education and so on

is a loss for the public. Man. Hopefully, I can continue my career anywhere. Whether at Kompas TV, after Kompas TV, maybe also on Akbar Faisal Uncensored, we collaborate? That's possible too, Brother. After all, a career can be anywhere. Yes. It doesn't have to be in one institution, it doesn't have to be in one agency, it can be everywhere. Okay, maybe I'll collaborate with you,

Brother, later. I have a YouTube channel, we could do Akbar Aiman Uncensored. I would certainly love that . Whatever the name is, as a former journalist, I love collaborating, and this is my senior, you know. My senior in the Salemba School of Political Communication. Uh, Bang Faisal, this Bang Akbar Faisal is in the first batch , I’m the fourth. Right? Yes, so we are both alumni of the Political Communication master's

program at the University of Indonesia. We call it the Salemba School. Salemba School. But Jal, answer my question. Which one, Bang? I answer everything. Why? Why did you have to end that show? Why did you have to leave? Well, it's because I have a greater responsibility, like this, Bang. I won't take a step if there is no value. Okay.

In psychology, there's what’s called a choleric, a typical choleric. When they take a step, they must know how they can contribute to themselves and those around them, society, and so on; the benefits and whatnot. And when I decided to move, it meant there was more value for me to gain. I have new responsibilities, I have greater challenges. I have bigger responsibilities, and for me, that is more value, and that was one of the

bases for my decision to move. After how many years at Kompas? 11. Almost 11. Almost 11. Later you will move and become a leader at one of them, yeah at MNC Group. RCTI and iNews. More or less like that. We'll talk about that later. Because I'm not there yet, I'm not there yet.

Uh, I know you, Man. You deserve that, my friend. Thank you, Abang. Amen. I must praise you because, as someone who likes to think seriously, Yes. We are the same, serious. But there is substance to it, Bang. Yes. And Bang Akbar is all about substance. When he asks, wow, bang, bang, bang. I luckily I can already read your mind, Abang. But I will ask that too later.

What do you call it? Your shows are sharp, opening a space for dialogue with our logic. That's my term for it. It's a rare show, we have few good shows, I enjoy that. But right now my guest is Aiman. What was I going to ask , Man? I have to ask. It’s okay, we can cut it later, Bang. We'll edit it. Edit, okay. It’s not live, because I heard the departure wasn't that simple. How is that, Bang? Can you explain? Show it. We have the second piece of

data. Oh, okay. What is this? Aiman’s investigation that went viral about online gambling fund flows. Ah, okay. Yes, this is my tweet. Yes. Does it have anything to do with your program, Aiman, where you exposed, uh, what’s it called, information regarding online gambling funds? Along with the big names behind them? Which then made several parties uncomfortable with you.

Uh, I’ll answer this exclusively here on Akbar Faedah Uncensored. Okay. I will say whether Aiman stopped because of pressure to quit, being fired, or anything like that related to the 303 consortium gambling. I will answer firmly: there is none. None. None. Because I was never fired. I was never told to stop in relation to the 303 consortium. None at all. So I am

clearly and firmly stating that, Bang. Right? Yeah. So it has nothing to do with that. I’m not saying it has nothing to do with it, but I was not asked to stop because of the 303 consortium. Did the 303 consortium contribute to my departure? The answer might just be it’s hard to interview someone who is used to interviewing. I already answered firmly earlier, that

I was never told to stop, I was never fired, and I resigned voluntarily. This is not Aiman, my source that I will mention next. I heard it from other parties. It’s leaking. It seems it’s leaking that you know too much, Man. Yes. And then brought that into your newsroom and it was aired several times when that case exploded very loudly as

I mentioned earlier. This is very neat, you know, extraordinary. Yeah, this is how we are here, with the limitations we have. Yeah. Actually, what is this online gambling that involves many names, even law enforcement officers, really like, Man? I will press you on that. Yes. First, I want to say that I obtained several exclusive sources

regarding this. The first is related to the consortium that I interviewed. The second is in cooperation with Indonesia Police Watch, yes, with Sugeng Teguh Santoso, who then also shared with me exclusively the alleged flow of funds from the consortium to a number of police officers and how the consortium works. So those three things were what I peeled back and aired on Kompas TV, although I couldn't air all of it because of verification and so on.

Verification requires me to first check if it’s true or not. Second, I have to check first about, uh, whether the names mentioned are involved or not. Okay. It must be balanced. We cannot be one-sided. Therefore, regarding the names, for example, the police officers mentioned in the alleged report, I didn’t mention a single name. Even though the names were there. Those names existed.

They did. Are they still active now? As police officers, I mean. Still. High-ranking officers. What do you mean ? There are mid-ranking, high-ranking, and even junior officers. Why must you cover it up when the data is clearly there, in the name of responsible journalism? Because we have to work in balanced

journalism. Okay. That is only one fact conveyed by IPW, for example. Yes, that is the fact, but we don't know yet what the verification process was like. For example, regarding the consortium, the consortium I interviewed. People could just suddenly claim things and so on, right? Well, the verification process before I did the interview was long, man.

I didn't just get it out of nowhere. I obtained that consortium. This is exclusive. They are from the Witness and Victim Protection Agency (LPSK). And it is guarded very strictly. I requested for this to be uncovered, so that it could be exposed, and I want to know because this isn't just about protecting from criminal acts. This is about a generation. Okay. I received data from the Financial

Transaction Reports and Analysis Center that said directly to me, Bung Nasiruddin Kongah. That the gamblers are playing for 10,000, 20,000 Rupiah a day, but the transaction value is 155 trillion in one year. Okay. What does that mean? They have data, even detailed data from the National Financial Intelligence Agency. The majority of online gamblers are lower-middle-class people. 10,000,

20,000 Rupiah a day. If there are 155 trillion per year, it means there are so many of them, tens or maybe even hundreds of millions of people. What does that mean? They set aside 10 or 20,000 that should be for their children's protein, milk, eggs, and so on. They use it for online gambling and maybe cigarettes and so on. What does that mean? If one person, one parent has two or three children, let's say two children. Just multiply by 50

million, for example, how much is that? One hundred million children are being sacrificed right now because of online gambling. That's just online gambling, let alone talking about drugs. We will discuss online gambling more in the latter parts of our discussion, man. But there is one thing that people challenged you on. Yeah. When you reported it, back when the case

of General Ferdi had just exploded, you made a report from Ferdi Sambo's house. Yes. Correct. And then in the social media space, what happened? There were circulating photos of piles of money. That was not from me, not from the Aiman program. Yes. People tried to connect the dots. But what I remember at that time was

Aiman explained from the location around the house, saying there was money, there was money, and all sorts of things. That's right. That's right. Many doubted that and, including some journalistic products, friends said it wasn't a hoax. What happened? Before I answer that, I will first say that Aiman always works with three

things. You already mentioned them, right? Data, facts, logic. Okay. Regarding data and facts, let's start with facts first. Actually, I got the data first, my apologies. Regarding data. I didn't get this data from just one or two people. Many. Many, including within the police force . I don't need to mention who my sources are. Regarding these facts

which are then presented in various reports, or strike them through, because the facts might be wrong. Regarding logic. Regarding logic before I speak about the substance. Regarding logic. Is it possible that when there is an attempted bribery by Ferdi as mentioned to the LPSK for example, then to uh Richard Eliezer? Not a single rupiah of money was seized. Is that so? That is the question. In the case, not a single Rupiah was

seized. Now, where did I get that from? I got it from my sources, both those I interviewed and those I didn't. Who is the source I interviewed? It is Albertus Wahyu Rudanto, one of the Kompolnas commissioners. He stated that the money was in Ferdi Sambo's house on Jalan Bangka, which was uh seized by the police. But the amount is not 900 billion, it's not hundreds of billions, not necessarily. What is clear is that there was money there and the amount

was quite large. It was on the Aiman show, and the Kompolnas Commissioner said that before the police said it was a hoax. So, before I delivered it, I invited Albertus Wahyu Rudanto, uh, a Kompolnas Commissioner, saying that there is logic missing here. Was there no seizure carried out for the bribery after bribery committed by? Meaning not even one Rupiah was seized. Of course, that becomes a question, right. I hope, we all hope this can be

investigated openly. Because it could be that when one or several clues about the money are opened, it will lead to online gambling. There are many sources we can use to rationalize what is actually going on in people's minds regarding this gambling. Some of my information also says the same thing. What I mean is this, not in that case, yeah. Aiman has already brought that up . What I mean is this, our online gambling is apparently much bigger than

what we imagine. One source of mine said that there are actually more than 9,000 online sites circulating in Indonesia. Meaning tens of thousands or at least teens of thousands? At least tens of thousands. It's easy to create what do you call it, uh, uh, an online site. I want to add here that my source whom I interviewed is a creator of online

gambling sites. At the very least, he recently created five online gambling sites. One online gambling site can generate tens to hundreds of billions per site. Imagine in a year, and we are talking here, pardon me, in a month. Heh. On average, from millions to tens of billions in 1 month for one online gambling site. Imagine there are tens

of thousands of online gambling sites. Extraordinary. That is what I mean. So what is imagined and expected by many people who dislike this practice is for the state to take the initiative to shut them down technologically as well. This uses a technology base, right. Correct. Since it's called online, then it should be shut down. Because from the information I gathered, just letting one site run for three months can generate tens of billions, and

they're still out there operating today . I took a capture two days ago. I captured it two days ago, see, I'll show you, the number clearly sent to my phone to invite me to play online gambling. H Ah, this 787. Raja 787. Yes. The name of the site. Yes. I don't know, I just clicked on it

, though I had to use a special application because I was worried that clicking it might drain my data and so on. Yes, I'm careful because I know a bit about it since I studied at Telkom for my undergraduate degree. So I know a fair bit about digital technology. Technology, back to our discussion. So, what did you actually find in your deeper coverage that differs from other journalistic work regarding that case?

What do you mean? What did you get in from that online gambling case? From that case you covered, what is some new information for us that wasn't found in other media? The generational issue I mentioned earlier, that there is a generation—if we count, there are 100 million children at risk because of this online gambling , not because they play, but because

their fathers or mothers do, diverting money that should have been for protein , for their brain, growth, and physical development. i their health, but it's used for online gambling. We're talking about a generation. If this persists, I don't know, 10, 15, 20 years from now, those who should have been much smarter won't have gotten that chance. We aren't just competing within Indonesia. Even now,

we're competing with ASEAN and struggling to keep up. Let alone in the next 15 to 20 years. That's the first thing. Then the second is regarding the extraordinary amount of money. Yes, I say there are three clusters in the case. The first is the murder cluster itself, the murder of Yosua. The second is the obstruction of justice cluster. And the third is the alleged online gambling consortium, which the National Police

Chief promised to resolve; the diagram mentioned during the Commission III working meeting with the National Police Chief has yet to be answered. Of course, that is an interesting matter to keep following up on. Of course, as a parent, I appreciate that approach to noble values regarding the future of our children. True. I express my appreciation as a fellow parent. But in this case, what people are actually focused on is how

law enforcement officers, specifically certain individuals h law enforcement officers who are supposed to eradicate crime end up being a part of it. That's what people want to know, Man. Yes. You know, the data I obtained shows there's 155 trillion in online gambling turnover. The question is, how much do the officials get? We are talking about

general matters here. For instance, lawyer success fees—you’re a lawyer too, right? We have a law firm. How much is a law firm's success fee? It’s usually 30 to 40%. Correct. Yes. If it's 155 trillion, let's just take 30%, that’s 50 trillion a year. That is fresh money obtained by the rogue officials who are involved and protecting the online gambling. And that's not all of them, because there

are still many clean officials who have a conscience, who are modest, and so on . Even though what's observed with these rogue individuals is 50 trillion, it's extraordinary. Extraordinary. Extraordinary, very extraordinary. 50 trillion is half the budget, um...what do you call it? Half a ministry's budget; some are 100 trillion, on average, some are tens of trillions. So , an annual ministry budget is

essentially in the online gambling protection fund. That’s extraordinary , isn’t it? It's the same value. People are interested in names, Man. That’s how our journalism works. If it’s just an analogy without any names, sometimes people say, "Ah, this is the same as..." from your investigation results, Aiman and team. How many names are playing in there besides the ones in the charts

circulating in public that are hard for us to verify? The matter of names needs verification. Okay. That there are names circulating in financial reports. That there are names circulating in diagrams. Checking them cannot be, um, immediate. Yeah. But there is one, there is one way, my tool to check that. I asked an ex-consortium member, "Have you ever seen the Sambu diagram?" I have. Are

there names you recognize that you might have interacted with? Yes. Without mentioning names, of course. What did they do? Was it from a businessman or a rogue cop? Both. Okay. What did they do? What did the rogue cop say? Phone call. Wait, how did they know? Right? They have contacts from friend to friend. They called me. He said, "Have you joined the consortium?" "Not yet, sir.""Join, someone from my

side will contact you later." Then a private individual entered to contact him, asking for a certain amount of dues. Yes, let's call it dues, it's referred to as dues. In the first few months he paid, subsequently, he didn't pay. What happened? Arrested. Arrested. He was arrested. Detained. Detained. Was he detained by the same rogue cop who called earlier? No. He

said it was by someone else. So, there isn't necessarily a link between the official from earlier and the one who made the arrest, right? The official who ordered him to join the consortium versus the cop who made the arrest. That doesn't necessarily mean it's related. I'm not saying it's related. For example, these rogue elements could say, "Hey, there's this online gambling operator, here's all the data, it's complete, just arrest them and hand

them over to us." Because the cities are different. One was in Jakarta, but at that time they were arrested in Bandung. That's what they confessed. What does that imply? It was very fast; when the fee wasn't paid for two months , if I'm not mistaken, they were immediately arrested. They fell behind, got arrested, and then were released. I asked, "So, how do you pay?""So you were arrested in Bandung and then brought to Jakarta?" Yes.

The locus delicti was in Bandung. The locus delicti was in Bandung, but they were taken to Jakarta. Detained in Jakarta and eventually released. How many cases like this are there? I don't know, but the one I interviewed was definitely him. Yeah. Are there others? Well, if there's one, surely speaking of the 9,000 or over 9,000, those tens of thousands, there must be others. That means the fees

definitely exist. The fees exist, and when you don't pay, you get arrested. Now, the question is, are those arrested truly the ones who were delinquent in paying the, quote-unquote , consortium fees? Has the real consortium been processed or not? That is the question. Lastly, they said Apin BK, a high-level gambling suspect, has been detained. Is he part of the consortium too? That's a question that needs to be

cross-checked. What is clear is that there are many names in the diagram. Are they involved or not? That is also a question. Of course, it must be proven through an investigation process , via scientific crime investigation. From the diagram or chart that is circulating, including Aiman's explanation... For the time being, we only see two clusters... in online gambling operations...

the security apparatus, specifically the police. Once again, rogue elements. Yes. So it doesn't become a legal problem. Because it's not all of them, right? I know a great many good police officers. I can guarantee that. The second is the business cluster. Are there only those two clusters, Man? So far, yes. Because if it's said there

are many online gambling arrests, we must ask: who was arrested, the players or the bookies? Yeah. That hasn't been disclosed to this day. How many bookies have been arrested? How many players have been arrested? If many were arrested, it might be that the number of players is higher, while the bookies are just a handful. And which bookies? Are they the ones who truly run things, big bookies like Apin

BK's level, or small ones, or owners of gambling sites who didn't pay the, quote-unquote, fees? Hm. Well, those are the long questions that we in the media must cross-check, and they must also be addressed openly by the police. From the investigation or in-depth information that Aiman and the team conducted, was it also explained how the fund-collecting model works, especially since it spans various regions?

Yes. We did obtain information on the collecting model. They contact people personally. As I mentioned earlier, they groom individuals. So, they set up online sites, operate them, and someone calls to join the consortium and pay the dues. Where exactly? Ah, the majority are in Indonesia. Why are they in Indonesia? Because during COVID, they were told to

return home. Some were in Cambodia, others in Laos or Vietnam. Yes, they once said Vietnam was the best because it's safe. We only hold one, and there’s no consortium there. We can operate freely there and easily act as the bookies. But couldn't you get arrested if you don't pay the consortium dues, even in Vietnam? No. Someone protects us. We only pay them, and the amount is very small, far different from in Indonesia.

So the model is the same there. Why? The model is the same as the one here. Yes. But they are centralized into one. It's just like a consortium, but the amount is much smaller. So, if we talk about business math, it's more profitable in Vietnam according to them, because the costs are lower, the expenses are smaller. I’m becoming increasingly uneasy doing this,

but the market remains Indonesia, even if they are in Vietnam. Oh yes. Following the thread from earlier, Man. This is a piece of information from Yes. I also received some information. Yes. There are actually two models for online gambling. Online gambling consists of domestic and foreign operations. What do you mean? It is what? The website is in Indonesia, the

server is in Indonesia, the players are in Indonesia, the bookies are in Indonesia, and the operations are in Indonesia. No. That's one. The second one is there are those based abroad. Hm. The server is abroad and cannot be blocked by the relevant ministry—or rather, the ministry tasked with that, in this case, the Ministry of

Communication and Informatics—because the server is outside, and it's easy to create them, or so is the information I received. So there are two. Now, the easiest ones to handle are those in the country. Correct. Correct. Like that, right? Correct. Correct. That is according to the confession of the consortium. Because if they are outside, it's difficult since the servers are abroad,

and no one shuts them down there. If they are here, they can be shut down immediately. Even if the foreign ones are blocked here, it’s easy to create a new website; the servers and bookies are abroad, but the people are Indonesian. You could collaborate with international police. Okay. If it is indeed massive and causes unrest, that's from a normative

perspective. But from a pragmatic perspective, if we use the term loosely , because they don't pay dues and then we cooperate with the international police with their, you know, criminal records, they could be arrested too. The one from earlier. Meaning there are many ways to catch those abroad. Yes. That Judi 787 earlier, was that domestic or international? I’m not sure. But looking at the

language, it's Indonesian. So, domestic. Yeah. Raja 787, the most popular online slot gambling site. "Gacor" is a buzzword in Indonesia these days. Okay. And don't be mistaken, this isn't just about websites. Many of them disguise online gambling as games. Games. Yes. A rather unpleasant discussion, I think, because this is our problem. But it must be addressed. Yes.

Look, we were discussing this earlier, right, Man? Yeah. There are three pillars that seem okay to be unfolding. Two are already exposed. Online gambling. Online gambling. Drugs. Drugs are already exposed. Okay. One more.

The other one. Mining mafia. Mining mafia. I’ve heard that too. But I haven't investigated it yet. I possess it. Okay, then let me ask. What is it? Sure . I... So what do you think? Well, but sadly Aiman is no longer with us. No, surely there's...I have this. But that’s not my point, I mean if the Aiman program is still open, I’ll

open it, why not? We can open it later, I'll be Akbar Faisal, and let Aiman ask , is that okay? That works too, yeah, that works. Yes, how many mining mafia members are there? One that is known... Unfortunately, our time is limited to discuss...Focus, don't cut me off! I have data on that. There is one, may I tell you? One regional leader, I don't need to name who.

Okay. In a region in Indonesia. Yeah. Let's call him a governor. Okay. I once interviewed him. I have interviewed many governors. He stated to me, off the record. He said, "Sir, do you know there’s a plot of land— well, not a house, but land. Yeah. Where a sand mining business is being

conducted. Do you know? How much the landowner gets paid per day? Yeah. Because the land is being used for that sand mining. Okay. How much? 100 million per day. A hundred million per day. What does that mean? How much is his monthly income? Not the landowner, though. Yeah.

So his daily income is... Yeah. The operator, quote-unquote, who is allegedly backed by authorities, which needs further checking. It's much bigger than that, they pay millions per day just to the landowner. Is that in Java or outside Java? That's not allowed. I want to leave you stunned. No, this still needs to be cross-checked because I don't want it

to go off the record later. Because I have to be respectful. Sir, that's exactly why I want to leave you stunned, the millions earlier. Per day. Per day. Just for the landowner, okay? Okay. A nickel mining area. In one of the provinces. H Just imagine, I don't know the price per ton today, but it once reached a

high of 93. Per ton. Hm. If the output is, say, 300,000 tons a month, how much is that? Wow, that needs some calculation. That's it, we've already made the chart here. Let me try to calculate it first. Let me try to calculate it first. So 93, let's say 93 dollars. Okay. Per ton.

Okay. Wait a minute. 3 dollars per ton times 14,500, let's say. Yes. That's 1,348,000 IDR. 1.3 million, let's say. Let's round it. Okay. Then per ton. Per ton. Okay. Okay. Times the monthly output. Don't make it too much. Too much. If it's 300,000. Let's say 50,000 tons come out of one company.

50 times 50,000 tons. That means 65 billion per 50,000 tons earlier. Per, per, that's per month, then. Yes. 65 billion per month. 65 billion per month. Yes. If it's 50,000 tons. If it's 50,000 tons. Yes. Then if there is the protection money, let's say 7 dollars per ton for protection.

So 93 minus 7 dollars. Yes. So subtracted by that's the lowest, I heard when the price was 93, the protection money reached 14. Still a huge amount, tens of billions, around 50 billion. That's it. Over 50 billion. But why has the topic changed to something strange? That's just one spot, right?

Yes. Just one spot. That's just one spot. How many nickel spots are there in Indonesia? Many. Back to there are many. There are many. Okay. Sulawesi has a lot of nickel, right, man? A lot.

A lot. Why mention Sulawesi? Well, it is indeed Sulawesi. Right, I don't think there's any in Sumatra. I'll just say Southeast Sulawesi, why is it so hard? Yes, yes. Okay. Okay, man. Let's leave this and talk about how to present a product, a broadcast TV or a journalistic product that is dignified and that we need. Tempo says it's" pleasant to read and necessary. "

Yes, that's fine. I call it dignified and necessary. Journalism that uses facts, data, and logic. I want to give an example people get confused, right. Fact, data, what is the logic? For example, a lot of media don't realize that once again, I, with skepticism, starting with skepticism, must certainly talk to Bung Henry Yosodiningrat or Inspector General Teddy Minahasa to confirm this.

Inspector General Hendry Yoso just called me. We couldn't pick up because we were leaving a question for me. Okay, today a letter appeared from Inspector General Teddy Minahasa stating that he denies everything that was done. Oh, his clarification. Yes. That the positive result was due to anesthesia at Vinski Tower and so on . So Dr. Deb Vinski is near my house, and so on. Now, the thing is, this

hasn't been discussed in the media even once because they haven't connected facts, data, and logic. Okay. Now, this is what I use. Fact, data, logic from Inspector General Teddy Minahasa's writing. Okay. He says he was deceived by a woman named Anita or Linda. Yeah. 20 billion rupiah for a drug bust

operation in the South China Sea. Okay. He used his personal funds. Correct. I I read it like that. 20 billion rupiah, yes. I read it like that too. 20 billion rupiah. People would think, oh yeah, it's normal because Inspector General Teddy Minahasa's LHKPN is 29 billion. So if he has 20 billion, is it normal? No, check again, Teddy Minahasa's LHKPN is 29 billion. 85%of

which, around 25 billion, is immovable assets in the form of land and buildings. Okay. Where is the oddity? If it's land and buildings, it's not fresh money, not cash. Then where did the 20 billion come from? The remainder is only 4 billion. If 25 billion is land and buildings, where did the 20 billion of his personal money come from? That very writing raises a new question. There is

an oddity that must be answered. So, I entrusted that question to Bung Henry Yoso here. In the study, in the framework of answering my question earlier, yes. I how a journalistic product right can if we talk about facts and data alone, our thinking is linear. Oh, yeah, okay. Here is a fact: the police say Inspector General Teddy Minahasa is a

suspect in a drug case. Then it's stated again that Inspector General Teddy Minahasa answers like this. Yeah, just let it be. But when we use the logic gifted to us by God, then we can answer the various oddities in this country. And that is that's not a fact, that's an interesting broadcast, not just for content, but for benefit. I never think about content. I only think about benefit. Regarding content, whether my intonation is sometimes

called excessive or high, that's just how I've been since birth. It's not made up. Okay. I talk like this, I have been like this since long ago. Well, perhaps that's a blessing, and there are pros and cons, which is fine, but data, facts, and logic must always be upheld. How disciplined are you and your team in maintaining that at AN and Team? Because, look, I want to give you

another compliment, Aiman. Oh no, let's not have too many compliments. Oh, Aiman has been running since 2015, right? 2015? So that means it's been 7 years? 7 years. About how many episodes now? Around 200 or so? 300? Around 300.

There are several of your products that I think really qualify as true journalistic work. Oh, so that means many others aren't journalistic? Yes. Okay. But even to the point of being reported to the police. It has happened, sir. Oh, so you've been reported to the police, then. That's the risk of being investigated. It's just part of the risk. But my point is, is that how you

maintain the quality of Aiman? Yes. The Aiman show. That's correct. Because, for example, regarding the alleged money earlier. I didn't mention 900 billion, you know. First, I want to clarify this. I did not mention 900 billion. Second, I also didn't display the image of the money because it didn't come from me; it came from someone else. People showed it, I don't know where from, but the fact

that there was money in the house is a fact I obtained from my sources, both those I interviewed and those I didn't. And those sources were sources directly involved in the Yes. Let's just say directly in the investigation with legally sound credibility. Yes. Yes. even if they didn't see it directly or whatever. I don't know. But the information existed, and those I

interviewed, including the Kompolnas commissioner, also acknowledged that the money was there, even though the police later called it a hoax, which is fine. That is then the battle of facts, data, and logic within the Aiman program and the public sphere. Okay, understood. And I want to return to how a piece of journalism is produced. I want to hear from someone directly working in the field, the creator of that journalistic work,

Aiman. Give us your harshest critique regarding journalistic products, especially those based on TV in our society today. I want to make a statement before Aiman answers. I suffer a lot from many programs. So, when a program like Aiman and a few others come along that are good, we feel we finally get a source of information that we can process with our logic. But from you, Aiman, what is your

harshest critique regarding journalistic products, at least those based on This is self-criticism for journalists, right? Yes, of course. Self-criticism for journalists. It's clear that you shouldn't just use data and facts. But use logic—for what? Exchanging ideas. I can be different. You ask me not just because you don't know.

But you have an idea. I have an idea. We battle with ideas. Dialog is about exchanging ideas. Yeah. Dialog is not only question and answer. Good. That's it. Yeah. So we have ideas. To have ideas, we must equip ourselves with research ammunition, with ammunition of knowledge. When you're a journalist, there's no such thing as a break,"

Brother, whether you want a break or not, you have to follow the news. " Why? If you don't follow information developments for one day, something is lost from the clusters in our brains. If that information, that cluster of information, is missing, it means our ability to analyze an event will be cut off, lost. But why then? Yes. But why is it then that our TVs

find it so difficult to present programs like what Aiman discussed earlier? Let's look at one TV station, for example. Okay, the status of TV A, they broadcast from morning until the next morning. There are at least 24 shows there, minimally. Is it possible that not one is worthy of being a reference with all our logic? Every TV surely has one. I'm sure they do, although of course public acceptance varies.

Oh, yes. Now, the question is as a program, of course, everything has value, but then does it move forward or force us to stay stuck at one point? That's a different matter entirely, Man . Yes. Yes. I don't know because I don't want to judge them one by one, but what is clear is that if I may say

yes persistence, consistency, steadfastness —whatever you call it—that is important, and it's not just in journalism, but in every job. So again, when Brother Akbar says how to create good information, it must be with good analysis. How to create good analysis? It must be with sufficient information ammunition. If the information ammunition isn't enough and the research is lacking, he won't be able

to analyze well because some of his logic clusters are cut off, missing. If the analysis isn't good, he won't make a good program, a good show, a comprehensive show, and it could be dangerous. And when that doesn't happen , he won't dare to walk on the edge of a cliff. A person who dares to walk on the edge of a cliff does so because he knows what will happen, what the possibilities are, and how capable he is of walking on that edge. A good

bridge to enter the final segment of our discussion. Viewers, many actually protest why Brother Akbar, in his episodes, talks so much; they want me to be an interviewer. Okay. I reveal that this is not an interview. Yes. This is a discussion. A discussion. And this is what's good. That's why

ideas, our battle of ideas can differ, Bang. So I answer because there are many such questions. Even like this, Bang. I say journalists can differ oh, I from the state. Meaning like this, when the government says," Ah, journalists shouldn't be parrots. " Yeah. I think that's when they have a good idea, when they

have good criticism that differs from the government, or even differs from the government's conclusion. Huh. Then they have the right to convey that . One lecture at Salin PAS earlier that Aiman mentioned. Okay, final segment, Man. Yes. Aiman moved from Kompas to the MNC RCT Group I mean. Both of them. These two start from two different entities even though

both are on Kompas TV with all their past elements that are very resilient in what that is maintaining and the oldest media, yes. Yes, the oldest media maintaining the dignity and honor of journalism itself. We can see how Kompas gets through the ages I and then it is continued by Kompas TV. Honestly, I am proud, um, what's it called, with friends at Kompas. Aiman

has made a name for himself there. We already discussed earlier a show called Aiman which then became, uh, very, very popular, moving to a television station that is rumored to start from politics uh, what's it called? starting from a different approach. The most moderate term I have is a different approach, at Kompas there is not really, politics exists at Kompas, RCTI might be 50-50, yeah.

This relates to Aiman's character. I apologize if I am mistaken, but I don't think so. You are a pure news anchor. Your approach is a political approach. You already said earlier data, facts, and logic. If you say, for example, entertainment, logic sometimes isn't needed, right? Man, my question is how will you shift your playing field later? My question is simple. Is a media owner being a politician wrong?

Oh, not wrong. Not wrong. Yeah. Does a media owner who is a politician have interests? They certainly do. Does a media owner who is a pure businessman have interests? They certainly do and must have them. And must have them. Meaning both have interests. There's nothing wrong with that. What's

wrong is when the media is used for interests that oppose the public interest. Only for the interests of a select group or individual interests. That is what is wrong. And when that is done, then the public will judge. Do you remember, my thesis in 2010 was about the 2009 Election. Huh. Which at that time was about the political battle between two TV stations owned by politicians, Metro TV

and TV One. Okay. There wasn't anyone else back then, right? What did I find in my thesis? In my thesis, I found that the public is critical. That was only back in 2009, Bang. Meaning social media wasn't like it is today. When things weren't right, they would voice it through what was available then, like Twitter and others; Facebook

existed, and Instagram, if I'm not mistaken, already existed too. H I forgot. But they voiced it through that. Now, it feels even harder to stray too far off course for personal interests or if it could happen, man. My question is let me make my question clearer. Did you ever feel your journalistic character was hindered at Kompas? And later, when you were at RCTI, part of MNC,

where the owner happens to be a businessman, were you still able to maintain that character people know when interests there are Yes. You have to do it the answer is i after the break. Ah, this is getting complicated. K. Okay, let me explain the answer, Bang. Okay.

This isn't me answering, Bang. I this is the book" Mediating the Message ". Is it possible to read that book is our lesson what is the reality, Man? Yes, that is the reality. That’s why I want to mention" Mediating the Message " written by, uh, Reese and Shoemaker. And Shoemaker, I yes, that's how messages in the media

are conveyed he to the public, how the internal struggle works so that a message from the media can reach the public. There are many interests, not just the owner's interests. Man, you're not answering my question, Man! This question, I am answering; there are many interests, the owner's uh, then the editors or producers, the editor-in-chief, for instance, with

their friends, and so on, and that has been portrayed in that book. Is that true? I answer that it is true, but I am not referring to one specific media, that is what happens. And my thesis also answers that. He. Now, what we must guard together is the message to the public. When the message to the public strays too far, then the media is judged. But I am convinced that now, no media would dare to be too

vulgar in going off track amidst the current social media flow which is truly extraordinary. Let me state, Bang , these are the data. People say, uh, TV is eroded by social media; that is not entirely true. Information penetration in Indonesia is still 96% held by television. Yes. Social media is indeed rising from 45% in 2017 to about 60%in 2021. But TV remains big and stays big; even if it's

not rising, it's not falling either. What does that mean? It still holds the hegemony of information in this country . Like it or not? Admit it or not? That is the data and the fact. Aiman is trying to convince me that he has answered my question. It wouldn't look good if I keep pressing him because time is running out. But, Man, as an older brother, as a friend, as a colleague, I respect your choices and thank you, Pak. I wish you success in

your new place, viewers. On November 1st, Aiman will officially no longer be at Kompas TV and will be at MNC Group. We look forward to your journalistic work on your new channel, my friend. And as a tribute, while also bringing this show to a close, I want you to end our program in the style the public knows you for. Go ahead, Mat. Thank you, Brother Akbar Faisal, my senior both at Salemba and in the world of communications, though not yet in

the world of politics. Yes. You are still in politics. It seems. Which party are you a politician for, brother? We will answer that after— You were with Hanura before, then Nasdem, right? You are the host, not me. I am not the guest here. Lastly Nasdem, still Nasdem? My guest is being cheeky. Okay, thank

you, thank you Brother Akbar. I am happy to be here and hopefully we can provide benefits to the community and to those around us, because in 100 years from now, we might not even be known anymore. A hundred years from now , we will almost certainly be gone. But what we can be proud of is how we lay stone by stone for the benefit of the next generation. Never forget that we once lived and we once had an impact in

this world. That concludes the Aiman TV program for the final time, it will not air on any TV station, only on Akbar's. I am Aiman Witjaksono. Regards.