MISKIN LITERASI, PENDAKWAH AKAN DISERTIFIKASI. "MEMBOSANKAN, SOK TAHU HINGGA PEMBODOHAN"

It's very easy for people to become ustaz. As long as they wear a hooded robe and a somewhat fitting robe, they read, and then they insult more and more, as if they're brave. They're called ustaz. Today, one thing that's missing is awareness. Awareness that religious knowledge is the most important part of religion, not the rituals. I'm inviting the great Bang Akbar's forum to have accounts for all the kiai and ustaz, and for the

students at Islamic boarding schools to start uploading that there are still many great Islamic boarding schools, qualified kiai and ustaz. And the public must be taught not to lecture just to laugh, then someone insults on the podium, so-and-so, suddenly we laugh along. It's just sad. The one beside Gus Mipta is a great kiai. Oh, yes, he has an Islamic boarding school. Imagine how netizens view all that. The most viral issue in the past

two weeks was a statement by someone considered by some to be someone who understands religion. Then, the word " Gus" is mentioned before his name. In this case, it's a man named Gus Mifta, with all the controversy that followed him. He acted rudely toward a salesman selling ST (Islamic teachings) at a religious study group. Because I was personally disturbed, I took action. So , I wrote on my platform X, which, by the time we took this picture, had been

read by millions of people. The political impact was that he had to resign because it seemed that some parties within Mr. Prabowo's government felt uncomfortable. We will discuss a variant of that event, namely this increasingly, or seemingly, unbearable phenomenon. More and more people suddenly feel very knowledgeable about religion and then find space to speak publicly, either directly in front of many people or using social media

platforms. So, many terms emerged for preachers or those considered kiai ( Islamic scholars) based on lessons learned on YouTube. Perhaps disturbed by this, a member of the House of Representatives, whom I confirm is a real kiai (Islamic scholar) who owns a large Islamic boarding school in West Java, issued a statement calling for certification for preachers. As I mentioned earlier, Andil Lala was responded to by the Minister of

Religious Affairs and said he would consider the history of this issue and/ or this proposal. So, okay, let's discuss it. Because honestly, personally, many people have been disturbed, including me, a little bit. I said, I'm starting to be more selective in choosing mosques for Friday prayers because many preachers don't increase my faith, but rather my sins. Because honestly, I don't know what he said. After appearing before me

, a member of the House of Representatives from the National Awakening Party (PKB), who is actually my friend, Kiai. Thank you, Mr. Kiai. Maman Imanul Haih. Thank you, Mr. Akbar, and it's an honor to be invited here. You should have been here for a long time, bro. We've been here for a long time. But coincidentally, this has come up

with, what do you call it? An issue that you inevitably develop. And I think I should respect that someone has begun to speak up, Gus, or Mr. Kiai, my friend. What is the real reason you've started to raise again, a discourse that has long been, what do you call it ? Raised by others. Eh, this was the moment when a preacher named Gus Miftah used harsh language, and he was indeed known as Jok Dirt Dirty e like that. Suddenly, it disturbed our sense of

humanity because the object he made was a person who had just had an accident and then he had to sell even though it was the rainy season ST and how much he had only sold. After that, with very harsh language, he also brought up the topic of fate. Even though it was a joke, it was something that disturbed our consciousness. There was something wrong with these preachers. And it reminded us

that it wasn't just at that time that so many preachers had mediocre knowledge. He exploited strange jokes and even irrational stories, even insulting the head of state and so on. And we never do anything unless I agree with Akbar, during Mr. Ahok's time, I was confused when I was new to Jakarta, I went to this mosque, and he went to this mosque, and he had to shout, why shout? There was already a good sound system,

and there were chanters like this, so I looked for the most suitable mosque for me, a newcomer to Jakarta, to be able to still pray Friday prayers . I found it at Pasar Masar Tebet. The Friday sermon was short and used Arabic . So there was no cursing because we didn't understand. Okay. Well, eh, when I finally got this, there needed to be certification, but I have to explain first that certification is not related

to silencing. There should be no silencing by the state because what is it called? Freedom of speech is part of our rights as a nation. Second, it should not include what is called state control. It is not allowed. I still remember my father during the New Order era, he was also a preacher, if he wanted to give a sermon, he had to report it to the Koramil first. What was the theme, what was he saying, and then what was not allowed, that was

not allowed. The state cannot control that. Well, what certification does is the most minimal standardization. Has he read the Quran and hadith? Second, does he have religious insight? What is called maqasidus sharia? The purpose of our religion is to maintain noble religious values. Not a noble religion suddenly tarnished by insults, insults against others who are different, and so on. Including

what is called hifdul aqli, maintaining sanity of thought and striving for national and state intelligence. Isn't that the purpose of our nation? It's lost, so we're surprised. I was once the head of the Islamic outreach institution of the Nahdlatul Ulama Executive Board. I came to a place where our friend, Rizal Sukma, who was the ambassador to London at the time, was staying. I said to Rizal Sukma, "Sir, these are the NU

preachers who have been invited here." Okay, bro. Can he talk about what's called climate change? Can he talk about the population explosion? I came to Indonesia, I said, "Come on preachers, we're going to Europe." But the topic was this. Huh. Everyone was silent. He said, "There's nothing about the theme of the reward of fasting in the month of Rajab, or whether it invalidates the fast, it's very standard." Yes.

So where is religion as a liberator? Where is the religion mentioned in the Quran as wadu anhum isrhum walati alaihim? Da'wah must follow the Prophet Muhammad who liberated marginalized groups, groups of mustadin, people who do not have access to public information and development. I said, " I'm surprised too." So when we go around mosques, including in Jakarta, the content is about the reward of heaven, intimidation and so on.

According to you, Mr. Kiai, why are there so many of them? Yes, I see that they are very weak in literacy. Not reading enough. Especially those who are famous and invited to the media because they get invited too often, they don't have time to read. That's why when I explain, there are famous people who will always give the same lectures over and over again, the same thing over and over again. So, how can we expect them to

educate people if they don't read, don't understand? How dare they appear in public and even wear all those accessories? I try to avoid more extreme sentences than that. That's without ever reading. Maybe they've read, or in my teacher's words, there was a great cleric in Jogja named Kiai Zainal Abidin Munawir. He said he read a lot of preachers, but only to consume their sermons, not to practice them, and he himself never

felt that the values taught would be truly useful. He doesn't understand. So , remember politicians campaigning, " Let's say if I get elected, let's build a bridge in a place where there's no river like that." Or suddenly someone is interviewed, "Sir, if you get elected, what will you be?" What's your response ? Well, my response is, if not wayang, dangdut, and so on. That's exactly what the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him

) predicted. Allahu Akbar. That the Prophet said that one day what would appear would be the qolla ulama or fuqahauhum. There are very few faqih ( jurists), ulama, and intellectuals. But the emerging discourse, most of the outbreaks, are caused by preachers who are not based on argumentative narratives, enlightening scientific values, and the real, rational conditions that exist in society. Well, in the minds of many, these preachers,

viewers, must be careful in choosing their words. Because in our modern history, there have often been very deadly incidents simply because of offenses in the name of religion, which are actually too exaggerated. So we have to be careful, Gus. You probably don't need to be careful to understand religion. I'm not a religious expert. But I want to say that I've just said that many people think that these preachers are probably alumni of

Islamic boarding schools, whose religious knowledge is certainly more complete. Is that true? And if so, the next question is, why isn't that reflected in those sermons? You already said what they're mostly about? Worship , increasing piety. Nothing more. Very boring. It's as if we don't know that method, or perhaps they don't know how to preach in other places or on other topics. What's it like, Mr. Maman? Yes, I see that the ustaz or, uh, the kiai

who preach but have a background in Islamic boarding schools seem to be more careful; their sermons aren't passionate, based on biblical references. We have, uh, a great cleric with what's called an interesting articulation, Gus Baha, for example, who is phenomenal. There's Gus Kautsar who embraces millennials closely, and so on. In certain groups, for example, there's Mas Faiz in Jogja on philosophy, and

now there's Mas uh, Nuruddin, who recently defeated a chubby teacher like that. Well, unfortunately, people with such capacity sometimes use terminology that they shouldn't be more visible. So be more careful and selective when hearing about getting a job, it's better, 'He's my brother, isn't he, he's my teacher, isn't he?' Well, because there's a void in people's interest in religion, people emerge who consider themselves ustaz.

What you mean is that these people are actually questioned, first of all, about their religious knowledge base, whether it's formal or not, or perhaps they haven't studied at a pesantren, and then they dare to take advantage of it. I want to say that one of the certifications I propose is to examine a person's background. Did they attend a pesantren or did they study with a teacher even if it wasn't at a

pesantren, for example, in a council? Did they master the references to the scriptures? In Shia standards, a person is called a ustaz if he has written at least 10 books? Then we call him an ustaz. Yes. Our standard is the majority, I am Akbar, there are Ahlusunah wal Jamaah. But it's very fluid, very fluid. People become ustaz as long as they wear a headscarf, then wear a robe, read a bit comfortably, then after that they curse more and

more and so on as if they dare to be called ustaz. Or even someone who converted to Islam, a former nun, a former priest, then became enthusiastic about badmouthing their former religion . I'm surprised there's no teaching in Islam to curse the so-called previous religion or other gods. The Quran is clear. W tasubadina minunillahirin. Never worship any God other than the God they worship because they will turn against our God. Lakumukum. That's why

it's strange in our society to suddenly hear a priest badmouthing the Christian church, badmouthing others. Then he suddenly insults dogs. Do you still remember the preacher who was a former priest insulting dogs? He bravely said, "Before I came here, my car hit a dog. I'm happy." He forgot that there were many incidents where dogs inspired a prophet named Abdul Ghaffar. He was criticized by a dog for insulting a dirty, shabby dog. Suddenly the dog was

said, "Ya Abdul Ghaffar, anta nabiyun wa ana qalbun hakirun." You are a noble prophet, but I am a despicable dog. But fazkurillah, remember Allah. Allah created you and me, so if you insult me , you insult your Creator. He cried, Bang Akbar. He cried for days until his cries were heard in the heavens and he was called Noah. He was called Noah likasrati buqa. But Allah accepted his repentance. Prophet Noah insulted a dog . But look at the consequences of

repenting for a sin, and Allah will test his repentance. For 500 years, Prophet Noah was tested by two people: his wife and his son, Kan'an. Why is this made as if Islam hates dogs, Islam hates that person, and so on. Because he is lacking. He can only sell material that he converted to Islam with such bravado. There is also a former thug who said that I am greater than the ustaz because I once felt sinful and then repented. With this

lack of literacy, debauchery begins to emerge. When I was in Kalang, there was a religious teacher in the mosque who shouted, "Ladies and gentlemen, we are facing a difficult situation, a dimensional crisis. Let's start tomorrow with Tahajjud day and night." We laughed, how can Tahajjud be done day and night? The Quran is clear. Waminallaili fatahajad bihi. Tahajjud must be at night, there is no Tahajjud during the day. And that was allowed.

Uh there was also one uh the focus of our commotion was still what is this topic called, right, which is based on socio-cultural, basically if he is of Arab descent, I'm not trying to be racist, right, there was a time, uh, what, uh, polemic about lineage, really, to the point that figures were involved , Romir Rama was also mentioned

there. I also see this as a major problem in society, especially in certain cultures in the country. Right. That includes that i. So uh, I was entrusted with the term Gus Baha yesterday with him closing the explanation about uh, or commenting on Gus Mutta. He said that I am the original Gus. Original. Well, I want to say that I'm called ee anak kiai ( kiai's son), my father is indeed a kiai

, my mother is a descendant of a kiai, and so on. But we in the ee cultural community of Cirebon, we are embarrassed to be called kiai because we call him Kang Mang to support like that. So even if in my city we're only called Kang Kiai and so on, people might say ah well, I just respect it. Although the term kiai can also be included in the cannons in what national universities, then also goong and so on.

But that's from a cultural approach. There are people who want to use the title of ustaz, kiai without clear references, without adequate capacity, only for worldly interests. They like to be called that because it increases their envelope. So the characteristics of my ustaz are not okay, not denying that it's important, it's also okay, ee our people are respected like that. The problem is if he suddenly starts counting. Counting is like this, just

watch, bro, sometimes join in on that person's lecture. When he's finished receiving the envelope, he'll pretend to go to the bathroom. It wasn't about fulfilling a desire, but about counting the envelopes. Was it true? I might have gotten mixed up with the sound system technician. I know that story. Oh yeah. Yes. But there are so many clerics. I have friends who are great preachers, like K Fuad Hasyim, from my father's

time. His three-hour sermons were very interesting. Sometimes when he was given a shout, he was embarrassed. Like ashamed. Even if he was given a shout, he would ask how many orphans, how many would he share, Bro. These points usually attract the audience. Okay, just fulfill that desire. Actually, how much is a preacher's fee nowadays? It depends on what grade he is considered. If, for example, there are up to 150 like that in the regions, eh,

with a base of 75 million or so, that's a lot, bro. Yes, it's more than our salaries in the DPR. Mbak Akbar. Before I joined the DPR, I was the most popular preacher. Oh yeah. Yes. It could be four points a day. So let's say it's 25 million. No. At the regional level, the biggest

amount at that time was around Rp million. 4 points of Rp million a day, that's a day. During the Mulud Rajab season and so on, I could have paid off the car. Actually, if I didn't have any antipathy, it would have been okay, no problem. Moreover, if he was a kiai, it would have been possible to build his message and so on. The problem was when there were second lines from the kiai, like his successors. For example,

someone came to me, eh okay, Kang Maman, I'll invite you to ee in one place. Okay like that. Suddenly another one came. Hey, ee, can you do it, it's already full, and so on. This is quite good for you. The first schedule was shifted just because there was money like that. Oh, he had become an ee, we usually call it the industrialization of lectures, huh. It had gotten to that point, huh. Yes. And some people were angry because

why wasn't I provided with something and so on. I remember my father. My father graduated from Yogyakarta. My father, when asked something like, "Mr. Kiai, I'm sorry, ee, how much is the envelope?" he would go into his room and not see the guest again. In my father's language, uh, something as shameful as that is unnecessary, there's no need to talk about it. You give it, that's fine, even if you don't , it's no problem. We've been intended

to preach. And there are many sincere preachers, bro. Those who go to Papua, to NTT, to Islamic boarding schools like Buntet, for example, there are ustaz who are sent to remote areas to discuss uh with the community, there are almost no donations, nothing, but they are sincere. There is a whole Islamic boarding school, what's it called, Kang Acep Samsam Nur, uh, Cipasung.

Cipasung, right? That's big too, right? Cipati is big, big. Not going back to the question of um, what is the price because many people like this. I heard that some preachers have already paid hundreds of millions and only come if the facilities are first-rate. One, the second, the dangerous one, he wants to go on stage if the transfer has been made, so he looks like a dangdut singer.

Oh yeah, I was surprised that in that Islamic boarding school, the kiai are disgraceful. Those preachers really keep that matter under wraps. There was even a preacher, a famous young friend of mine at the Islamic boarding school, who, if he got an envelope, would put it straight into that box and only open it during Eid, then he'd calculate his zakat and so on. So he said, "I never knew how much I was given because the

envelope was in a black box." So, don't be surprised if a preacher likes to go to that area and doesn't want to accept that area. That preacher clearly doesn't have the background I mentioned earlier. He sees, oh, the rates here are quite high. People understand that there's a mustadin class. Oh, is that so. Yes. Oh, but it's permissible for the preacher to live a luxurious life,

right? Look, Islam doesn't forbid us from being rich. Okay, that's important for me to mention. What's important in that language is how we position the world. Adunya fi aidihim la fiubihim. The world is in our grasp, but not in our hearts. So, from a sociological or psychological perspective, Gusmta's case can be seen as someone with a very well-known position as a presidential special

staff member suddenly feels the urge to belittle others because of his adunya fi qulubihi (competition for the sake of others). The world has taken hold, leading him to perceive himself as weak , everyone as stupid, and so on. Including me, eh, the answer earlier, how people suddenly become proud of their lineage. I'm the son of such and such a cleric, the son of such and such a habib, the descendant of such and such. So what's

the point of religion? The Prophet Muhammad always emphasized that a person's excellence lies in the value of piety. Piety is a universal value. Whoever you are, whose child you are, as long as you are honest, as long as you work hard, as long as you are generous, and kind to others, you will get heaven. That's why the Quran doesn't say heaven is for Muslims. The sentence is uiddat lil muttaqin (the righteous). Heaven is for those who are

pious, regardless of their background. That's what we sometimes wonder about. Well, usually people who don't believe in their knowledge, they hide behind symbolic symbols. Robes, udeng-udeng, prayer beads as big as bagong. But look at the PD, our clerics from Muhammadiyah, Persis, had Ahasan who was a debate expert. Then we had Buya Hamka who was calm and so on. In NU, especially, there are many great

clerics, great preachers. But look at the way they dress. Gus Dur always wore batik kopea everywhere, now Gus Dur Baha sometimes wears his kopea crooked. But why do people like him? Because of his scientific value. Listening to lectures from Pak Quraisi. Ha. Hm. Right. Gus Baha. Mas Faiz. ee, we feel like we are thrown into a space where we then become more familiar with ourselves and

our God and are like given a life jacket to prepare ourselves to face all situations including our next life journey. Right. Right. That's more or less how I feel when I listen to Gus Baha, right. With his simple appearance, Mas Faiz, with his calmness, yes. Honestly, that's what we want, Kiai. Now, before I elaborate on this, we're still in the

realm of what was mentioned earlier, literacy. Right. What is it that has happened to us that, if I turn the situation around , our society is so easily impressed and makes excuses to religious teachers who, like, insult our logic and tire us every day with useless sermons? Right. That's what I said, why I'm returning to my idea of certification. The state, through the Ministry of Religious Affairs, is responsible for

enlightening the nation by improving the quality of preachers, improving the quality of preachers, and that must start with a literacy movement. It's like that. How many books do you read for a sermon in an agrarian area? How many books do you understand when you're going to give a sermon in a place with extreme poverty and so on. So what he brings are those values. What he brings are those values . Well, that's why when such

enlightening discussions are so weak, the products are also the products of a society that only sees the kiai from the appearance of "wow, he's handsome in a robe." Like that. Because if we go to Saudi Arabia, drivers, conductors, and gas stations also wear robes. Don't be afraid of being kissed by our people later. In fact, religious tadayun must be tadayun alal (meaning "la tadayun alal" literally). Religious tadayun is

substantive, not just symbolic like that. That's why, I apologize, Bang Akbar, if later it includes sermon themes. Why are the themes only about rewards? So why? Why aren't there themes like extreme weather, climate change, disaster mitigation, why we have to look at our neighbors, how many people in our house can't afford school, and so on. That language is touching. I remember the incident

where Imam Malik was approached by a group of people. He said, "Hey, oh Imam Malik, please give a sermon on generosity so that these rich people will wait until 4 Fridays." Imam Malik didn't talk about generosity. It wasn't until the fifth Friday that the people were already angry. They said, "Why don't you dare talk about generosity and so on? Are you being pressured by the rich not to talk about it?" No. I waited until I had money and

distributed all my money to how many poor people, how many orphans, and only then did I dare to express those teachings. So, ibda binafsik. A preacher who will enter the heart will start from himself, understanding the reality. That's what in NU language is that we must be durunal ummah biin rahmah. Viewing society with a view of compassion, a view that understands what they need. We don't just create empty dreams, fuel their passion to

hate others and so on. This is a problem. Once again I held an event at the PBNU da'wah institution, it started with the main point, Ladies and Gentlemen, don't intend to be da'is like that because we are all da'is, whoever we are, but first improve your reading of the Quran, improve your intentions, after that we try, we bring them to a place in Bogor, when they come, someone tells, "I found water." Okay, Mom

talked about the philosophy of water from the reading called bismillahirrahmanirrahim. We mentioned the reference that when the Prophet Muhammad Mikraj he saw something? Four large rivers apparently came out of mim bismi, the hole of Allah, then mim arrahman and mim arrahim. Well, we make it a habit, including, sorry, scientific data and facts. Because addinu aqlun ladina liman la aql lahu. Religion must be rational. Religion is

not useful for people who only do doctrine, stupidity, unclear prayers and so on. But it must truly touch the mind, fill the soul, only then can it enlighten the life of the nation. But if the preaching system is like this, the sermons are unclear and so on. So for me, there's something interesting, Bro, the sermon book is kept in this place, ee what? The pulpit. Yes. So what is read is back and forth, back and forth, the theme will not be

changed before the sermon book is eaten by termites. This is fundamental for me . I'm a little before going to what the certification is, I need us to elaborate on this discussion, bro. So that our society will understand that we are actually in a problem. What I mean in this part is ee why our preachers have such difficulty speaking and/or discussing and/or ee what elaborating various sermon materials

about the future. The future is immediately brought to the issue of death, heaven, and hell. But how today's problems are difficult for them to answer. Okay, indeed we must ee live in a position to prepare for the future with all the wisdom we have, with all the fears we have. But then we also have to prepare ourselves to live longer than today. In my opinion, okay, if we die tomorrow, we can agree with that. But if it turns out we don't die

tomorrow, who will pay the debt? Will we hand over that responsibility to our children who are not actually involved, don't need to be involved, don't need to be responsible. So there's a question in this section, why do our preachers, especially the people we're discussing, seem so incapable or even unable to reach this point? Imagine if our preachers could talk about China making an artificial sun, something like that.

Right? Uh, can people succeed in cloning cows into something like that? That's for the future, so that farmers, or uh, cattle ranchers in Brazil and uh , Argentina, can double their income, so their children can go to the highest level of education. Why are they struggling? That's what we're thinking, including in Islamic boarding schools. Gus Muhaimin assigned me to the party to meet with the kiai, to discuss with them, especially with them, how we

could create a forum to foster the emergence of those so-called alim alamah (Islamic scholars). So I met with prominent kiai in East Java, Central Java, and West Java. The answer was simple. Today, the one thing missing is awareness. Awareness that religious knowledge is truly the most important part of religion. Not the rituals, not the practices. That's what is truly said: inna hadal ilma dinunzuru amma takudunaakum. Indeed,

religious knowledge is the most important part of religion. So we must be able to find where our religion is derived. Well, coincidentally, we received religious teachings from someone who doesn't read and has very weak literacy skills. Second, he doesn't want to learn. Yet, the Quran, with so many verses, contains afala takilun, afala yatafakarun. How should we think? Including looking at comparisons. Why did Singapore advance?

Why did Japan, which was in decline with Hiroshima Goyos, suddenly emerge? Why did South Korea prepare for industrial, uh, what's called today, what's the music, and so on? Well, they don't consider it part of religion. In fact, it's how we should look at others to be a lesson for all of us. Well, that awareness needs to be revived. Like that. That's what's called ulul albab. Ulul albab combines the power of dhikr with thinking. Well, we do too

much dhikr. Wirid, dhikr, and so on. We rarely read it, lazy like that. Well, we need people like Gus Baha who prides himself on the importance of mutalaah. Knowledge comes only through mutalaah. Knowledge comes only from meeting like-minded people. He talked about meeting uh, Pak Quraisiahab, he met many people, and so on. So, what is that awareness that's raised and then formed? The second point is weak connectivity. Back when AHSAN held an

important debate in Bandung like that about Ahmadiyah, what was interesting was how that forum actually became a forum for scientific debate. There was no cursing, no insults, and so on. It was just normal chatting and so on. Indonesia is such a beautiful place for cultivating differences and so on. Don't. Then let's look at the Arab countries that Bang Akbar just mentioned. They have only one school of thought, the same tariqah. But they

fought tooth and nail. That's what Buya Said Sirad always said, we're grateful for. Religious plurality, the same beliefs, don't divide us. Then we made what we call it? A mutual agreement called Pancasila. But he said, why have we suddenly become weaker in terms of knowledge? And this is what needs to be revived, including apologies from universities. There are universities where he has engineering graduates, suddenly called ustaz, then he talks

about irrelevant religion and so on. There should be silaturahmi. One adheres to the text, the other adheres to the context. The text and context are combined into one material that will educate society. And the most important thing is likulli maqol maqom. Likulli maqol maqom. He must speak in his place. Because every place has its own words, every word has its place in ours, right? So, this A, the most frequently seen themes when we look at

TikTok, when the theme is always about the household of husband and wife, sometimes women are even degraded, boasting about polygamy and so on. Are there no other themes? What are they talking about? These important issues, my question, why not say that actually people who pray but let the river fill with dirt and he doesn't care, his prayers are useless. What's the point of someone so great who goes back and forth on the Hajj but keeps corrupting?

The Quran is clear. Many people pray but don't pray, many people go on the Hajj but don't go on the Hajj, many people fast but don't fast. That's what should be elaborated. That's why I hope that the da'wah institutions under the mass organizations that were born in the past, such as NU, Muhammadiyah, Persis, Al-Irsyad, will come together again to formulate this. Don't let this forum be taken over by what I call " Ustaz Karbitan" or "Kajajaden"

preachers according to Sundanese who suddenly appear and so on, speaking uncontrollably. When we ask these mass organizations to control it, they say, "I don't know what kind of mass organization he is." And that's a massive public deception that we allow. And it will become a time bomb that one day we will never have. The EQ of Indonesians is 78.49, below that of gorillas. It's scary to hear. Eh, a former prime minister, in this case Mr.

Mahathir, has even taken a very strong stance. He said this person, in his words, Malays are stupid because of ustaz. I'm not sure any official in Indonesia dares to speak like this. Okay. But eh, it seems the situation in Malaysia is not far from ours, actually . Eh, what do you call it? I hope this kind of awareness will continue to emerge, and it seems Kiai Maman has already started it. Audience, this friend of mine who is speaking in front

of me is not someone who just recently understood religion. Eh, Mr. Kiai, what is the name of your Islamic boarding school? Almizan Jatiwangi. Jatiwangi. Tasik, right? Majalengka. Majalengka. Majalengka. Majalengka. Okay. So, he's the right person to speak there. So, okay, now let's get to your topic, which you brought up in the official forum at the House of

Representatives. If certification is to be carried out, there must be a distinction, there must be limits. But, again, there are concerns about the past, where, uh, events like this have been attempted, and it could happen again. You're not worried about that. I'm not worried because we are grateful to netizens for social control that has already occurred. This incident made us aware, including

when Gus Miptam apologized, suddenly there were people who created excellent content. How is it possible to apologize by embracing, pressing like that, and still pointing fingers? I don't think so. And Mr. Prabowo, despite his military background, is aware that today's situation has changed with this netizen control. That's the key word we must hold on to. So, I say again that the certification I proposed must negate silencing.

People who disagree with the government should not be exposed, including not being allowed to become state control. It should be a kind of institution where people who will later become preachers and so on in society have minimum standards. Can they read the Quran? Can they read at least 40 hadiths called Arbain? Does they have insight into the religious understanding of maqasidus syariah? Just standard, no

need for complicated ones like Gus Baha who is too smart. Gus Baha is great, but he explains it in layman's terms. Khatibinas biqodri ukulihim. Kang Faiz, Mas Faiz, explains what is called ecological philosophy. Oh, that's very sophisticated. It's sophisticated, but still in understandable language. Yes. And it sinks into the heart. It sinks into the heart. We found several great preachers from Aceh, even to NTT

and so on. I said, "Why don't you have an account, why don't you make a YouTube account or something to replace the people who are dealing with this problem?" That's the problem. If you look at it on YouTube, there's me with Gus Dur's Fatwa Joke. He. Gus Dur is a joke expert, but Gus Dur's joke is always making fun of himself and his apparent power, never insulting others.

Well, one time, Gus Dur called me to Ciganjur. Kang Maman, can you bring friends who can film? Who should I bring? And Gus Dur was wearing a sarong. Gus Dur said, "But the kiai, Kang Maman, I'm just Gus Dur. " That's it. His humble image of a teacher to me is still like that. Then he made jokes and laughed really deeply . Then he said, "Later, please come to the kiais and take what religious values are here and then add humor so

that the people who are already upset and confused by this situation can still be enlightened." Like that. Okay, sir. I came to my kiai at Baitul Arqam in Bandung. I said, "Hey, Ustaz, I'm sorry, this is a greeting from Gus Dur. We want to take it." Ah, come on, don't worry. I'm not Gus Dur. If Gus Dur understood what he was saying, I didn't. Because I'm humble and humble, it didn't happen . One more thing. I'm not afraid of

making waves, being arrogant, or being proud. Two. The third, yes, but please, make a concept later. The point is, it has to be dismantled. I'm inviting the kiai and ustaz to have accounts through this great forum, so that the students in Islamic boarding schools can start uploading that there are still many great Islamic boarding schools, qualified kiai and ustaz, but unfortunately they don't speak up, don't show off.

They're beaten by people who understand technology and create accounts and talk as they please. That's what I'm saying. So, Bang, this Mbang Akbar forum should also come to Islamic boarding schools. How many people's policies have changed their mindset because they were criticized by Bang Akbar. This is amar marf nahi mungkar, which is more efficient than us shouting about going to villages and so on. How many millions of people read Bang Akbar's

Twitter and so on. Well, let's go back to the certification process, the stages will be simple. There's a Ministry of Religious Affairs forum under the Islamic Community Guidance with mass organizations. Those mass organizations will first conduct the training for preachers. Second, there's your standardization. Our preachers are from Muhammadiyah or from NU, where are your standards? This is their religious insight. This is their national

territory. This is what you can't reveal in public. Even though, for example, there was a jok. In the past, NU and Muhammad argued about qunut and not qunut. Now, no one is arguing. Indeed, there are no more arguments at dawn prayers, so there's no more arguing. Well, Muhammadiyah's path remains Muhammadiyah, NU remains NE, but in a fun way. But what are the limits, Kiai? That was the minimum standard. So, no

one needs to be afraid of differences. No, I mean, the limitations, so whether they are worthy of preaching or not, will eventually be determined by them going into the field. Yes, of course, supervision will be complicated. Not really, because the certificate can be taken like a certificate of professionalism. So, there will be certified preachers who are being

ousted, namely problematic people. When there are problematic people, for example, it will be known who they are, where they are from, what their background is, and so on. Well, if the person is fine, there won't be such a problem. So, no. Well, including just now, we've been combing through state-owned mosques and so on. Don't invite people who don't have that certificate, especially regarding their national insight. Don't let it happen,

I'm sorry, during Mr. Mahfud's time at the Constitutional Court. I was beside Mr. Mahfud during Friday prayers. How could a preacher at the Constitutional Court who preached about Pancasila have to be replaced? It's the Constitutional Court that must believe that Pancasila is fundamental and okay. But, um, we are becoming more mature as a nation, Mr. Kiai. But what if it's suddenly seen, not by the state

, but by a few people with authority who exploit it in the name of the state ? Well, that's what must be avoided. Actually, from the previous stage, mass organizations already have standardized certificates, the issuance of which is based on an agreement between the Ministry of Religious Affairs and the mass organizations. So, for example, when preachers at state-owned mosques and so on, well, that's new, you know. People shouldn't just do whatever they

want; after attending a state-funded ministry institution, suddenly invite a preacher or ustaz who lacks national insight, who doesn't understand how to be Indonesian. Well, this also becomes a learning experience for the community . So, people, Bang, need to know what hot apps are available and where they can be invited. They're looking for viral ones. Those already exist, right? They do. But what happens if the viral ones

aren't certified? Hehe. Well, the community is being educated. There's a preacher under the Ministry of Religious Affairs who says if you want to invite someone, please do whatever you like. But try. I always say that when inviting a preacher, you should first check whether there's a mosque near your house. Okay. Second, do they have an institution like that, at least a Quranic

kindergarten and so on, or at least ask them to read the Quran first so they don't make a mess. Well, in the NU preaching institution, there's starting to be an awareness among the public that when inviting a kiai, they have to have certain criteria, and then they're asked, "Kiai , I apologize, but the lecture will be about this, this, this." Because we need that. Again, I have to try because this is a political forum, and where

then things like this are our concern here. Aren't you worried that this will be used again by non-state individuals, even though they are state officials, to mobilize their political interests. For example, Akbar, you can give a lecture, I'll give you a certification, but talk about my interests, right? Like that. How about it? That's what I've been saying from the start, this certification only relates to the minimum standards for a preacher

. It's about the minimum standards for religious references, religious insight that is the goal of religion, and national values. We have approximately 800,000 mosques, bro. Yeah, something like that. But how many of them are qualified in their sermons? If we have to follow that standard, it means there will be mosques that don't have the qualifications to pass certification for e,

but it's not necessary, and when someone, for example, delivers a sermon at a mosque and suddenly doesn't have a certificate, they're demoted, it's not necessary either. Oh, is that so. No need. Okay. Or, to put it more simply, certified preachers are prioritized so that people who are already well-known, and so on, can be held accountable for all of this in the community so that the

community can feel at ease when they are invited. This means that if they don't pass, you should stop giving strange sermons, including on social media. Agreed. Oh okay. Yes. What's the point of claiming to be a preacher if they can't read the Quran ? How can they possibly tell the congregation to enjoy reading the Quran ? They've never even read it.

In that situation, what are the risks? Uh, what do you imagine as the owner of the proposal? Let's say I'm a cleric, not a cleric, I'm a professor with all the attributes, uh, uh, as a means of giving a sermon, which, according to uh, the certification standards don't meet the requirements. So then I'm declared to have failed. Did I lose my right to preach, either in person or on social media? Not really. Not really. The title "kiai

" and "ustaz" are upheld by the public. But the public must be educated. Don't just call ustaz and kyai who provide information that doesn't align with noble religious values. That's fine. But what I mean in this case is that I was already well-known as an ustaz, right? But it turns out I didn't pass. I couldn't even read the Quran. Yeah. The public will judge. Oh, okay.

So we publicize that when certified, and so on, it turns out that so-and-so couldn't read the Quran, couldn't even pray, and so on, for example. Well, today's society needs it, and in the midst of people's religious desires being so high, we didn't prepare for that. He's dead if we agree and suddenly no one invites him. Well, we think it would be better if he didn't

just write? Why not give a lecture without calling himself a preacher, but become an expert, become a specialist. Yes, like that in his field, for example, agriculture, just talk about agriculture. I sometimes find it funny that people who don't have that kind of understanding force themselves. I'm sorry, there are officials, for example , who force themselves to appear Islamic like that.

He quotes the Quran, eh, quotes the hadith. He says, "Ladies and gentlemen, please support my education program." Because the Prophet Muhammad said, "Thabul ilmi faridatun ala kulliin qadir." Imagine thabul ilmi faridatun ala kulli muslimin wa muslimatin. The obligation to seek knowledge for Muslims, both women and men, changed to innallah ala kulin qadir. I mean,

it became the Quran. So the Quran from hadith to Quran is funny. There are indeed many incidents like this. We'll just do it on the side. So one time I was sitting with the Minister of Religious Affairs, Mr. Nazar e, in a place in my village. In my village there are many people like that. Pretending to read the Quran , he gave a speech, the opening, the Quran, I poked him. He was a Kiai because I live in the same village as

him, people from Sengkang Wajo. Is that what the boss above said right? He said , "From beginning to end, everything was wrong." Oh, is that so. So what will he do? Not civil death. We change the language. Don't do it. People will definitely avoid him, right ? And he will learn. He will learn. Maybe he can stop for a year, two years , but after that he can learn to become

a religious teacher again. Right? We need that, we need that. To be honest, I've listened to the preachers many times, I'm a student of Bang Akbar. I've heard how unique Pak Zainun Mz, Pak Sukron Makmun are. To this day, when I'm in the car, I listen to sermons, and I'm someone who never chooses. I listen to Sheikh Ali Jumat. Now, if Bang Akbar ever watches Sheikh Ali Jumat's video, that's what I call the most ideal sermon. There's no

invitation like this. Let's fear Allah Subhanahu wa ta'ala. Just a narrative. I said, "Why is it an invitation like that?" I didn't. He mentioned, for example, five points about the requirements for successful learning. One by one, a beautiful set. After that , he closed. Zaidun MJ did that. So there's content. So how can we listen to a sermon that's full of lectures like, "Let's do this, let's do this." We asked him if he knew the hadith

about it? Did he know the points? Imagine if Bang Akbar's sermon talked about how there was success like China providing agricultural aid to Eptovia, so that today's poor, dry Eptovia suddenly changed. That's what Muhammad Abdul said. Roaitul Islamlama dunal muslimin waritul muslimina dunal Islam. I see the noble teachings of Islam practiced by non-Muslims, leading them to progress. Meanwhile, I see Muslims

disregarding the teachings of Islam, leading them to backwardness, slums, poverty, ignorance, and so on. Let's look at Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, and so on, including Indonesia. Yes. For example, Islam always emphasizes that pedestrians should be respected more by motorists. In our country, there are no such things as tort-torts, even vendors use them. Hm. But look at London, in European

countries, and so on, we can safely walk because the tort-torts are wide. Once, my son and I were in a taxi there in England. It turned out the taxi driver was going the wrong way. Hm. And he stopped at the side of the road and turned off the meter. I said, "Why did you turn it off?" He said, "I'm sorry, sir, I made a mistake." And he just, uh, what's that called?,could only pay up to here. The next trip to

your destination is my responsibility because I made a mistake. I immediately fell silent. Why is his behavior so Islamic? If we were deliberately being manipulated to increase the meter, that's how it is. But there's something even worse, bro. I've been on the Hajj continuously for 10 years. I'm on the Hajj special committee. One time, I saw a Hajj official apologize, he manipulated the elderly

people into not stoning the Jamarat. Then he let him represent them. Then, each stone was worth 5 rials. Wow. Then there was another one about sacrifices, damin, and so on. I gave him some advice. I said, "Sir, aren't you afraid of sinning by doing this in the holy land?" He said, "Yes, I know it's sinful." But aren't we forgiven by coming to perform tawaf and praying in the multajam? Imagine that class,

religion is capitalized for personal gain. Today, we desperately need a religion that is more substantial, sincerely values humanity like that. Because Islam came to be present for all of that. It's sad. So sad like that . If we then have to compare it with other countries, eh, what kind of country does the same thing and that is an Islamic country? We have examples here, Malaysia, Brunei Darussalam, and

Saudi Arabia. Is that even like that, eh, Kiai? I think we have different methods. I still criticize Saudi Arabia, but what we are worried about is that it certifies preachers who align with the kingdom's ideology. Hmm, so some groups that ee differ from them, like ee, what about our teachers, ee, Sayid Muhammad bin Alawi, now Sayid Ahmad, are a bit marginalized. Well, I don't really agree with that. What we

hope is that whatever the organization, whatever the way of thinking, as long as he has a minimum standard, minimum. Once again, I say minimum standards, there's no need to be complicated or too smart, there's no need for that. Then he has what are called thematic studies like that. And society must be taught not to give lectures just to laugh, then someone insults so-and-so on the podium, suddenly we laugh too. It's just sad. The one on

the side, Gus Mifta, is a great cleric. Oh, yes. Yes. Owns an Islamic boarding school. Imagine how netizens see all that. Even though I was in an Islamic boarding school, it's commonplace, but where do we put it, taught in a boarding school like that? Well, I know Malaysia too, Malaysia doesn't have very good certification either. Uh, I was once invited to Malaysia, and

Malaysia also wrote about the theme, it should be this, don't mention this. That's unnecessary. That's what I mean, Mr. Kiai. No need. If we end up agreeing in the name of a political agreement and pressing the situation, then we'll do it, not restrictions, uh, what's the term? uh, certification. But many people read that certification is actually a restriction. How can we avoid getting caught in this situation?

I'm sure when the Ministry of Religious Affairs collaborates with Islamic organizations that were established long ago, I always say they're crazy, those that were established long ago because it's the newer organizations that are sometimes questioned. We have organizations that have a strong educational base. What do they have? They have their scholars, their religious councils, and their fatwas.

Take Muhammadiyah and NU, for example. Sem Alirsyad, Matul Anwar, Persis, and so on. They are very responsible for maintaining the existence of this country and upholding polite, friendly, and tolerant religious values. Religious values that prioritize the maqasidus sharia. That's what I believe . So, the state will only act as a facilitator and mediator, and then educate the public. The public will

always know that inviting a kiai shouldn't be done carelessly. If inviting a kiai, especially if he's been indiscriminate in public, he must have the courage to defuse him. He must have the courage to defuse him. That can be done a lot. Has it ever happened? Yes. It has happened. There was someone he insulted and so on, he insulted and so on. There was a village head who went up to the

top. I'm sorry, Kiai, the people here don't need to be taught hatred and so on. But it's also dangerous, bro, if the community isn't enlightened. That's it. That's it. Because he saw, oh, why is this a bit different from me? Suddenly he cut me off again. That means there's a problem with the community. I think yes,

I think it's strange. I often learned from Gus Dur, especially. Then, uh, I learned from my father. My father was a figure, being the first secretary of the surau council in Sumedang. Then he was a NU figure. My mother was the chairwoman of Muslimat NU in Sumedang Regency. But look, when he played chess , when he was playing, he was friends with his friend, the chairman of Muhammadiyah, named Pak Engkos Engkos Kosasi.

And he entrusted me to him, his exact friends and so on. And he said, "This is Persis, this is Muhammadiyah, and so on." So it was ingrained in my soul, especially with Gus Dur. If Gus Dur invited me to Romoindu, he would go to priest so-and-so and so on to say it was beautiful. Gus Dur repeatedly told me to recite "Alhamdulillahi rabbil alamin." His phrase is "rabbil alamin." Allah is the Lord of the universe. Allah is the Lord of all nations. Allah

is the Lord of all tribes. Allah is a very pervasive God, and that's what's needed. So if there's a problem where people are suddenly easily provoked, people who are different are considered enemies, then there's an unclear decline and so on, that means there's a problem. In the long term, we as intellectuals, as people who have opportunities, it's not finished yet. Uh, the response from the Ministry of

Religious Affairs said they would discuss it. When is that? We're in recess, and today we're being quite serious about the Hajj because there's a new body called the Hajj Agency. So the Hajj Agency's position must be reviewed. Maybe this year it won't be the organizer but will accompany—uh, what's it called? What's the difference between the Hajj Agency and the BPKH? They're different. So, the regulation for the

Hajj is under the Directorate General of PHU. Huh. Then the execution is under the Hajj Agency. The finances are under the BPKH . Oh, I see. Like that. But everyone has to report it to the Indonesian House of Representatives. Does that mean, eh, what we're discussing is a bit odd, a bit backward, isn't

it? If this discussion can be held at the ministerial level, not just with the Director General of Community Guidance. The Director General of Community Guidance is also a friend of Abang's, and he's a great professor to talk to. Oh, very, very. Yes. So why do I dare to bring this up? Because the Ministry of Religious Affairs today is held by people who understand how religion can be a force

for transformation and peace. I once accompanied Professor Nazar in a sermon at the Indonesian House of Representatives, which was about how God dialogues with the devil, with Satan. Then he said, "Why don't we open a dialogue with other people who are different, other people who always bother us?" That really resonated with him. He's a very moderate person, yes. Yes. Especially now with the Director General of Islamic Community Guidance,

the current chairman of ISNU, sir. What NU? Well, I think with this formation of the Ministry of Religious Affairs, I'm sure there will be an interesting breakthrough regarding tolerant religious life, not for one group, but religion and then religion for all of Indonesia to enlighten and educate the Indonesian nation. We hope that the problems that should no longer exist today, as we discussed,

can soon end. Because we have this goal of becoming Indonesia by 2045, Mas. That's right. It won't be achieved if we're still like this. Yes. If public decency is still violated. If I criticize Ustaz, I'm commenting on Mahattir. Mahatir just has to add a few more sentences. Malays are stupid because Ustaz are stupid. He. But Malays are smart or Indonesians are

smart because their Ustaz are smart, have a great literacy movement and so on. I totally agree. That's the sentence. It's appropriate, Kang. Thank you. Thank you very much. This is extraordinary. Because I was immediately interested in inviting Kang Maman because I think our problems are actually everyday, have entered this

area. Okay. Hey, viewers, that was a very detailed explanation from a council member, a people's representative, and also a true kiai. Why? Because their family comes from Islamic boarding schools and still has one to this day. Hey, this is someone I've known for decades. Long story short, let's move forward and talk about something that many people seem to be trying to avoid. I, too, have avoided it in the past. But I think we

need to talk about it now. We can't get stuck in this kind of situation. So aren't we moving towards the future? As far as I know, Islam is my religion, and it's all our religion. The most widely practiced religion in Indonesia also believes that Islam is the future. But we won't get to the future if we get stuck in a situation like that. Thank you for watching this conversation.