ARSJAD RASJID, KETUA TPN GANJAR: "KAMPANYE PERUBAHAN ITU HANYA MARKETING GIMMICK"

There is one party echoing the name of change. Doesn't that equate to returning to zero? Mas Arsyad I just see it as image marketing. Yes, I always look at it from a product and advertising perspective, you know. So, it's simple for me, I say that's a marketing gimmick; it is very important for me to say that Kadin is non-political. Kadin will not take a position. Kadin is neutral. Kadin is neutral. There must always be a

commander, always be a controller in facing a war. And the urgent war is the 2024 Presidential Election. I happen to know a little bit about that because I was once involved. Eh, I invited someone I respect, who has been appointed as the war commander for one of the presidential candidates, in this case, Mas Ganjar Pranowo, my friend. And the one appointed is also my friend , Pak Arsjad Rasjid. He holds many positions, the one we recognize most is

as the Chairman of Kadin. Along with leadership, both the board and commissioners of many companies. Pak Arsjad, thank you. Thank you, Brother. Is this the second time, right? Second time, Brother. The second time. So, previously you came as an entrepreneur, as Kadin Chairman and a big businessman. This time, maybe as a politician, since you'll be dealing with politicians,

right? Yes, indeed, in my view, the boundary between these two professions —businessman and politician—has been quite thin for the last 20 years. Heh. I invited Pak Arsjad because we want to know what you are planning for the person who is a candidate for our future national leader. I think it is appropriate for us to listen, and in your hands lies whether his campaign and his path to becoming president will

run smoothly. But the first question is , how did this happen? How could you, Pak Arsjad, be the one appointed? Could you explain a bit, sir ? Sure, Brother. First, like this, sir. Let's just drink some coffee. Sure, Brother. Yes, let's have some coffee. But, like this. First, if I may correct you a little, Brother. What did you say earlier? That

that this is a war, that I am a war commander. Okay. I don't consider this a war. Not a war, no, Brother. Not collaboration. No. This is called competing. Oh, competition. Okay. Yes, Brother. It's not that. So, if a commander, not a commander, I am a CEO. Oh, okay. A CEO appointed by a joint venture.

Joint venture. Yes, between the parties that currently exist, there are four parties there. Okay. They have agreed to create a cooperation, right? That cooperation, in a business context, is like a joint venture company. Heh. I was appointed by this joint venture company to be a president director, right, brother? So, I want to make a

distinction first, brother. It’s not about roles, but competition. Competition. And this is about a product, you see. Forgive me, brother, these are products , but products for the nation, where it is very important for everyone who wants to choose, to pick the right product, which I think is correct. So, if everyone asks later, how is the product? All products are good, but which product is the most suitable?

Because everything is good, but which one is the most suitable? Suitable. Now, why is it like this, brother? Yes, we have to be able to say today that consider this like we are in a company, right, brother? In every company, there are all sorts of things. If, for example, a company is newly born, called a startup, or a company that is growing, or a company that is already stable, or a company that is

struggling, or whatever, every cycle requires a different CEO. There are startup CEOs, growth CEOs, and all kinds of CEOs, brother. Like that. If we talk about Microsoft, in the beginning, it was Bill Gates, but eventually, Bill Gates realized he couldn't be its CEO. He appointed someone else to be the CEO, he chose to just be the chief technology officer. And even now, he is no longer there. So , this is a cycle; I see it as a cycle

like a company. Now, Indonesia also has a cycle, right, brother? So, this is what we must pay attention to. Who is suitable to lead Indonesia going forward? That is, well. And you asked earlier, "How did you end up like this? " Brother, I never thought I would be here today, able to discuss with you all, talking about politics. I said, don't just think about politics, brother. I will try to discuss that as well, but

in this context. If we talk about, what do you call it, what happened to me at that time, when I was going to become the chairman of Kadin, brother. Kadin, I never thought, I had no ambition to become the chairman of Kadin, brother. It never crossed my mind or entered my brain. It turns out my life path eventually led me there. I ended up becoming the chairman of the Chamber of

Commerce and Industry. Now, however, brother, after that, now they say after corporations, I continued to organizations, now I don't know what it is, maybe they call it social-politics or whatever else. It was something I never even thought of, so when I was, well, decided upon by the friends in that joint venture company, those involved in this political cooperation, I was actually quite shocked at the time, brother.

Frankly, I was shocked—not that I hadn't heard anything, I heard people talking to me, but nothing was official yet. In my view, I hadn't been officially called in to be told, "We want you to be the CEO, your duties are this and that," you know? Why would I? At that time, it hadn't happened yet, brother. That's why, when I got the news, I was suddenly at an ASEAN event at the time. I was at an ASEAN event, suddenly we were about to have the

ASEAN Business Awards, sir. That night, someone suddenly came up to me and showed me, and I was shocked, brother. I called one person, I was angry with them, I asked, "What is this all about? " Why? I mean, it's only natural, brother. I asked, "Respect me, talk to me first," right? I am the object and the subject here. So, I really hadn't been approached to talk about it beforehand, right? There were a few people who spoke about

it, but none of it was official, brother. I just considered it gossip, or people just telling stories to please me or whatever, but well, it’s already happened. That's why I said I was shocked, truly shocked, and what concerned me most was my family, brother. I felt like my family said, " How could you make such a huge decision without talking to us?" That's difficult, brother. First, second, I hadn't talked to my partners or the

companies either, brother. I’m at the root of a public company here, brother. Right? Then there are organizations, large Indonesian business organizations, brother. Hmm. Right? I can't just play around. I can't just decide things on my own, like, "Okay, Arsad is doing this." I can't. I can't, my heart wouldn't be in it, brother. That's how it is. So I had to talk to my family first, talk to the corporations, and

talk to the organizations first. Only after all that was cleared could I make my decision, brother. So, that is what happened, brother. Like that. So, thankfully, I went through that whole process. At the time, before the media, well, our community is the same group of people anyway, right? Yes. Correct. Politicians and entrepreneurs are always at the same table, right? And

then I got news that Mas Arsad had been appointed; there were two things in my head at that time. First, does this indicate that the direction of the struggle, the policy goals of Mas Ganjar later if he wins, will focus more on business elements, and so on? Or the second point? Hmm. This is interesting, the campaign approach that Mas Ganjar and his coalition will take later. Yeah.

What did you call it again earlier? A Joint Venture Company. A Joint Venture Company. Even the terminology brought from the business world sounds, uh, more moderate, right? We know who Mr. Arsyad is, uh, more moderate in many ways. Yes . Uh, what you said earlier, your approaches, those corporate approaches are actually what we truly need. As many wise people say, one enemy is too

many, 1,000 friends are still too few. That's right. Okay. Well, that seems to be my take at this early stage, that with Mr. Arsyad's style, as a businessman with an extensive network, his approach will likely be more moderate. Added to that are the, uh, deputies or vice chairs? Vice chairs. Vice chairs. There are three vice chairs.

One is Pak Andika Perkasa, a military man, but his approach seems moderate. Yes. Then Mas Gatot, my friend, a three-star police general, former Deputy Chief of Police, and Tuan Guru Bajang. Guru Bajang. So I see it, wow, this is quite different from, uh, we have to mention it, the stance in some PDP sections that seemed rather extreme, including toward, uh, some parties. In this case, we know especially toward PSI and also

toward uh, other volunteers as well. Yes. Is that really the public approach , Mr. Arsyad? Uh, like this, Bang. I don't know, people can make their own judgment calls about all that. For me, what’s important is what I want to see, right? So, earlier, I went through the process , and once I pass the process, I will hold the position of team captain. Right?

Like I said earlier, I consider myself a CEO, right? Now, for me, my stance is that we must be able to communicate, we must interact, we must be open because all problems will reach a deadlock if there is no communication. Okay. And interaction. So, for me, we have to have open communication. Even if our views might differ, Bang, our values are one, Bang; what I always believe in is the value

of Bhinneka Tunggal Ika, unity in diversity. That we can be different, but we must be able to unite. Yes, that’s why we always talk about consensus (musyawarah mufakat) in our values. Now, what is the capital for all that? The capital for consensus is communication. We are forced to communicate. That's why, in the past, our founders leaned more toward consensus than toward, let's say, voting. Why?

Think about it deeply, Bang. Our diversity and all of that, it's not as simple as just choosing to say okay, yes no, yes no, right? But we truly must be able to communicate. The value of consensus is essentially a value of being able to communicate. Without communication, consensus cannot happen. Yeah, that’s an approach I feel we’ve forgotten. Because when we talk modern, the Western approach is just voting. But look at America, man. Look

at how America is today. America is divided, split apart. And that's just them, let alone other countries, man. Unfortunately. Especially with what’s happening, partly because of the technology we have. Why? Because of AI and so on. In the end, we only receive the information we want. Even though we should be getting all the information. What does this mean, Mr. Arsad? In the context of you being the team chair and at the same time being—controlling, a

bit extreme of a word, but let's use it —controlling many interests within this team later on. First, I want to talk about the values that must be upheld. Okay. Okay. That’s why I say Unity in Diversity, wherever I am, I use it. So in meetings, man, I want to hear from those who disagree with me. I’m glad when we—I want everyone to express themselves because only through

expression do we understand why, then we decide, because the best decision is one made after hearing from all existing perspectives, right? Now, these are the values I want to bring, man. And it's just like what's there. So, first, this is it, because I believe the foundation of a successful organization is its values. Yes. Now, let’s talk about it, man, it’s clear. It’s clearly stated, the name is PT TPN GP, right, man? The Winning

Team for GP, that’s right, man. Isn’t that right, man? Yes. The KPI is clear, man. Yes. Its KPI is already in the name, it’s clearly about winning. So we must, we must win, right? Yes. And that’s natural. Okay. So, I have to see how to make Mr. Ganjar Pranowo win. Okay. But what’s most important and bigger,

man, is how the Indonesian nation wins. That is the most primary thing. Okay. Okay. Victory for the people of Indonesia is the main priority. Why? Every presidential candidate should be thinking about the people first, before themselves, before anything else. So, if that’s the basic capital, then it’s great, man. Yeah. Now, let’s talk, okay, how do we win?

That means we must create a strategy. That’s why I say it’s not a war strategy, but a competition here. What is the formula, Mr. Chair? Actually, what you’re saying happened back in 2019, right? That’s because in that context, yes. That’s right, man. Yes. My hope is like this, man. That was perhaps the end, man, what happened

back then, and I appreciate it, man. Mr. Jokowi changed the existing constellation, man. That’s why I say this, man. Sorry, I want to share a little story, I said it’s like the Indonesian people have a life process. Okay. Phase one, I call it the first half, there's usually a mid-game, like a soccer match. The second half, man. h

The life stages of Indonesia from its birth in 1945 to the 98 transformation, or the reforms that occurred. Then from 98 until recently, man, 2019, I'd say we were still in the mid-game, that is the halftime break. In my opinion, that "like halftime" means what? Indonesia searching for its identity. Okay. Going in circles, going around looking for an identity. Only in 2019 were there two symbols that made me say this is Indonesia's second half. What are they?

The first is when Mr. Jokowi asked Mr. Prabowo, his contestant at the time, to join the government, man. That's what I mean. Yes. Right. Now, that was the first symbolic sign, man. Right, that's a sign of, wow, political maturity. Uh, the state thinks of the people before itself. Okay, man. The second symbol that emerged is Mr. Jokowi stating Indonesia must become a Golden Indonesia by 2045, the 4th largest

economy in the world. Two symbols, man. And I say that is the start of Indonesia's second half. Yes. Meaning sustainability, yes. Sustainability of the second half. Well , that is our capital, man. Like that. Now, what we must ensure is most important first, to make it clear and everyone must think about this in my opinion, that if everyone wants to think about the people, the people want welfare, prosperity, and justice. Okay,

man. If it's about welfare and prosperity without economic growth, without a functioning economy, that so-called welfare or prosperity won't happen, man. Now, to achieve economic growth, or as I said earlier, an economy that can keep growing, we need two things: political stability and security stability. That's important. Now, what we must maintain and agree on together is, let's agree to keep political stability and maintain

security stability. That is what I want to convey, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Arsad, we agree that we've been going in circles for too long. Yes. Going in circles, man. While there has been a point where we should have started from after years of spinning around. But even at the same time, namely this 2024 Presidential Election, there are parties echoing something called change.

That's why I then want to ask, You, I agree that this is a matter of communication. Can the next Presidential Election not be as brutal as the last one? Okay. There is already an example we can follow: how Mr. Prabowo joined even though he was bullied when. But again, I want to say there is a party echoing something called change. Isn't that the same as going back to square one, Mr. Arsad? So what is your formula, what will you do?

Well, it's like this, man. To me, I see it all as just a marketing image, you know. I always view things from the product and advertising side of things, you see. So for me, I simply say, "Ah, that's just a marketing gimmick." A marketing gimmick, yes. Whether it's about change or whatever, whatever it is, it's a gimmick, brother . That's all. I put it as simply as that. Okay. Now, what we must realize together is

why Kadin—we at Kadin, brother— created what's called the Indonesian roadmap. Okay. This Indonesian roadmap, which we presented to the President back on the 22nd at IKN, the Nusantara Capital City , as a symbol of our contribution. I said it wasn't just Kadin, but from all stakeholders. Why? When we made it, we invited associations, religious leaders , we spoke with, uh, what's it called,

uh, labor and workers, we spoke with NGOs and others. Now, at least this is what I call a living document that has just begun. Come on, we have to be like this, brother. If we want to build a nation, that development must be owned by everyone. Ownership of this. If we create this, we say, "Sir, we are contributing this as an initial input, but we will give it to all presidential candidates, all parties, all

universities, give it to everyone, and it can be accessed by all.""Why? What's important is that everybody must believe." That's the Kadin side of it, Mas. Yes. No. Wait, Mas... My point is that, as a foundational basis that Kadin provides, at least there is something now, brother. There is... it's not just small notes. But what is important is our planning for the next

20 years; it is important that we have a consistent process, we must be able to plan well, and it must be agreed upon first by everyone, brother. Now, once we've agreed on that, well, I've talked about buses before. All this time, we, the Indonesian people, have been so trusting, we really believe in our leaders. Brother, if we want to go anywhere by bus, for example. We always look at the route, brother. The route hasn't been there

all this time, brother. H Indonesians are so trusting that we just become passengers anyway. We sit down. Passengers pay, don't they, brother? We pay taxes, brother. So we are just sitting there as passengers. We trust whoever the driver is to take us anywhere, along with the conductor. Even though we don't know where the destination is,

and we just stay quiet. And just stay quiet. Now, Mr. Jokowi has listed the route toward a Golden Indonesia. Okay. So now, the route is clear, brother. Okay. To get there, who is the driver? H who is the conductor, that's the question, brother. If you want to go from Jakarta to Bandung, which way would you go? Through Padalarang,

Puncak, or somewhere else? H Well, we have to agree on that. That's why this serves as the initial support for that document. So, whoever becomes president later, of course, Bang. For me, since I am part of the team, the winning team for Ganjar, obviously I want Ganjar to win. Okay, that's how it is. But more importantly, I say the winner

must be the people of Indonesia. That's it. In this part, I have one final question . Okay. If, for example, Mr. Ganjar wins as you hope. Will Mr. Jokowi's 2019 formula be used by involving these two candidates? Well, I cannot represent the parties, but I can represent it if I am trusted as the president director of this joint

venture, right? From my point of view, I would say that eventually, Bang, we must work together to build this nation . Why? Because we must unite. Even though the campaign issues in the 2024 race starting from now are different, Bang. That's how it is. That's why whoever it is, it's like the perception being built earlier. Perception is synonymous with a process created for me. Whoever is creating it. Now, this

is what we must—especially the young people, the younger generation—be sharp about. I get worried now when young people say, "Ah, politics is a headache. I don't want the headache, I don't want to think about it." Yes, I always say, "Don't. You must care about politics." Why? Because politics shape your future. Your future, whoever you choose, that is your future, not our future. I keep telling them. Now, this is important, not necessarily

to enter politics. But to understand it . So this is very important to also educate the younger generation because, look, Bang. First of all, Bang, about 30%of the voters will be first-timers. Voters, and then more than 30%are probably voting for the second time. He new. Right? So these young voters who are the majority are the first. This is what we must educate properly. Secondly , Bang, it is also the first time

saying that the majority of voters will not be from rural areas, but from urban areas. This is also interesting. The first time in history. So, wow, this is fun to watch, it's different, right? So , these things are good for me, as I said, that this is what we must do. I want to carry out a process that is called politics that is fun. Don't make it too serious, don't consider each other enemies. Don't, this is I entered into that from what I

understand. Because, well, I have been involved. Yes. That—actually, Brother, I'm already in, aren't I, Brother? This is my first time entering. So, there are two areas of play for you later, Mr. Arsad, if I may. Not that I'm teaching you. The first is the coalition. Uh-huh. Its strength, its foundations. Yes. Be it political parties, community

groups, and everything else. The second is the ideas. We are talking about... ... the coalition first, the ones currently joined are PDIP, PPP......Perindo, those parties, right? Only three, right? Only three. If... PDIP and PPP, Perindo, Hanura. Oh, Hanura, yes, Hanura. Sorry, sorry, Brother. Right? There are those four. And then the networks, right?

Four. Meanwhile, in other candidate groups, let's say Mr. Prabowo, it's already very big. He. Very big, right? Already more than 30%. Mr. Anies is the same. Already 27%, right? I am not saying that you seem to have been appointed too late as the team leader. Because with your communication style and experience, it seems it could have been more than that

. But the core of the question is this, Mas. What will you do to ensure that solidarity is maintained? And there is at least one point I truly noted. I mentioned earlier that there are many notes from friends, some friends in PDIP, that are considered too extreme, even making enemies, right? And then, there are many controversies that occurred...... in this regard. What will you do, Mr. Arsad?

Brother, talking about communication is not easy. It's not easy, yes. And everyone sometimes has a different way of communicating, Sir. Yes. Now, sometimes what creates a perception or misunderstanding is just because one person might speak Javanese , another Batak, for example. Sorry, Brother, let me speak. Yes. Or others. So, this is a matter of

fine-tuning, right? So, I don't think I'm saying that PDIP friends—it's just that PDIP's way is sometimes like that, but not everyone, Brother. It might just be a few people whose ways of communicating are different, right? So, let it be, because the fact is everyone is different. The most important thing now is—and I think, sorry Brother, I'm saying PDIP is actually quite open, Brother. For example, look at how Mbak Puan, for

instance... Oh, yes. ... communicates with AHY. That's right, Mbak Puan seems more moderate now. Yes, Mbak Puan talks around, right? At that time, there was also—eventually, Mbak Puan posted with Mr. LBP, for example, Mbak Puan went here and there, right? Yes. I say we need to salute Mbak Puan, right, for opening that up. That is

part of PDIP, right, Brother? So, it's actually not just PDIP, everyone just has different ways of communicating. So, with that, I feel that communication is what we want to build. And for me, what's important right now, brother, is that whoever we want to talk to, we must be able to talk. Even if sometimes we end up talking and they don't join, it's fine, it's okay. Right, brother? Well, that's what you call a life choice.

A choice, yes. Right? But the interaction and communication keep going. Now, back to what people say, whether it's rigid or whatever, it just depends on how people see it, but the most important thing is the intent. Right? The same goes for the intent of PDIP, the intent of Golkar, and the intent of everyone else. So, what's important to look at is not just the communication style, but the intent

behind it. So, looking ahead, we are open. I definitely cannot represent the party, but I can represent this joint venture. How much authority is there and what form of authority is given to the Chairman, Mr. Arsad, to lead this team? I feel, as I said, that surely, brother , in a collaborative process there must be representatives from the parties, but there must also be professionals. Because the values we have now, brother

, if we talk about companies, it's no longer just shareholdership. Yes. It's about stakeholdership, right, the stakeholders. It's the same with this. So, besides the parties, there are also many volunteers, right? So, we also need to talk to these volunteers too, right? Volunteers are also part of the Indonesian nation, right? But indeed, everyone must also realize that there are laws. Those laws govern parties. Volunteers are not in the law.

But volunteers are part of the spirit. Who want to have democracy, want to be together. Right? Let's also talk and listen to the volunteers. If the thought is that parties must be listened to, then volunteers should be too. Volunteers too, and actually everyone, brother. Not just that, all of the people. But why is there no representation from two parties there?

Meaning, in this case, Hanura and PPP. Even a note for PPP, there is Sandi there, our friend. Oh, yes, brother. Your friend, right, brother. Brother, there are even people from the military and police. What can we observe from that, brother? Brother, this is what happens when information is still fragmented.

Yes. Sometimes, brother, we don't get the whole story. See, that's it. Maybe the whole story will come later, like this, brother. First, brother, that so-called TPNI is not official yet . Oh, just wait, brother. Because it's the TPNI official, man. The TPNI official is for when we enter. If we enter, our legal standing is solid, right?

Not yet, right? Not yet, right man? Okay. Okay. The legal standing is established once there's an agreement, right. It's a cooperation agreement, but the legal standing is stamped when it's entered into the KPU and registered there; that's official legal standing. Isn't that right, man? Like that. So for now, it's not yet. Not yet, right.

It hasn't reached that point yet, man. Oh, this story is still in the same chapter if we're here. This is the importance of us talking, the chairman says it's not official, it hasn't been registered with the KPU, and I agree, meaning it can still change, right. Yes sir, that's the legal standing sir, there's an agreement between the parties that has happened. Yeah, it's

currently being built, man, maybe it was just announced. But not everything has been announced yet. Yes. Take it easy, man. Right? Like a movie script. We also release it little by little in each episode. Right. Look, look, Mr. Chairman. I've also heard, this is a secret between us, okay. Don't tell anyone else. Especially our friends at PPP. Yes.

Why were they the first to come to the party? Together with PDI-P. In fact, Mas Sandi was actually positioned or planned for a certain role. We will discuss that later in my part. Okay. Ready. So that means it's not clear yet, right ? Not yet, man, and with Mas Sandi too, man. He is also my brother, man. A good friend of mine. I am constantly

communicating with Sandi. Right? It's just that he is currently busy with, you know, the wedding of... marrying off his child in New York. Congratulations to Sandi. So, because he is busy, it's just a matter of timing, man, that's all. And I really appreciate, I spoke with Mr. Mardiono, and with the others, the Secretary General and so on, right. Communication is ongoing. It's just that maybe the press release was wrong?

Or maybe the whole story wasn't captured back then? It's not yet, man. Not yet. Yes. It's like this, man. If it were a company, man, right? If you want to build a company, there should be a joint venture agreement, maybe the first thing is... what's called transition management. Right. A CEO is chosen, and after that, they are called in, "Hey,

we need to form the management." That's how it is, man. Yes. It's not like that yet, we're still at the start-up phase, man. Start-up. And with that, we just started thinking about who should join. Now we are gathering the names of whoever it may be. We ask for input, we ask the parties, please, whoever you suggest. We ask the volunteers, we ask whom, right? So it's still in process, Sir. Yes, I see. A pleasant answer, of

course, in my opinion. There are several analyses, friends, that we can understand from the current composition today. Okay. The one that isn't official, which isn't official yet because it hasn't been registered. Mr. Arsyad. Uh-huh. As the chairman. Yes.

Chairman of Kadin. Yes. Uh, leader and owner of, uh, a conglomerate, right, with networks everywhere. Yes, sir. So some people say, okay, if it's the business group, it must be clear. Uh-huh. It's in Mr. Arsyad's hands. Oh, absolutely, brother. Analysis. Go ahead. Go ahead.

Can we? Second, there is Mr. Andika. Mr. Andika , former Army Chief of Staff and former TNI Commander. I truly believe, as a soldier's child, I truly believe the TNI network down there, down to the level of the regional military command and so on, it's what is it called, there are those called village supervisors, it's effective. My father was a former village supervisor.

Then there is Mas Gatot there, a very humble person, a three-star police general, uh, former Deputy Chief of Police, former Police Chief in South Sulawesi, my hometown, who is, uh, very humanistic. So if it's about networks, people call it the police network, yes, that's clear. Then there is Tuan Guru Bajang. Yes. Tuan Guru Bajang is a former governor in NTB with deep knowledge of Islam. He is accepted in Islamic groups. So

people look at it and say, "Wow, this thing is clear if it's like this, right ." But in the parties, it seems people are asking why are there no big parties, quotation marks, joining PDIP? So people look at it, "Wow, it seems like Mr. Arsyad is working." This is what must be done before the registration date with the KPU that we discussed earlier. Yes, brother. First, let me clarify

first, brother, yeah regarding Kadin, right? I want to explain first. So at this moment, with me becoming part of this TPN, this Yes. I have asked, right, I have gathered the regional Kadins. Okay, I have also gathered the friends on the daily executive board, right, where, brother, this is the governance that we must carry out. I said that I will be temporarily unavailable to attend at

Kadin Indonesia. Uh, you mean leave? The term is unavailable to attend, Sir. Yes, unavailable to attend. Yes, unavailable to attend at Kadin Indonesia. So I will hand over the day-to-day operations to someone called an acting executive who will be appointed. As of when? Now, this, now talking about if it's today, brother, we are talking about

this, right? Today we are doing this filming, it's Monday the 25th, right? Now this airs, sorry, brother, may I? Yes, it's okay, it's okay, it airs, uh, a few days from now. So, as of Wednesday, September 27, 2023, Mr. Arsad is temporarily off from Kadin. Yes. Okay. Okay. I will be off or inactive at Kadin.

As I mentioned, I will be temporarily unavailable for 6 to 8 months. So, clearly, I am appointing an acting executor at Kadin Indonesia. This is important to clarify that I do not want Kadin to be tainted by politics. It is very important for me to say that Kadin is not political. Kadin will not take a position. Kadin is neutral. Kadin is neutral. Kadin Indonesia. Kadin, regional provinces, and all the way to the regencies and

cities, are all neutral. But, brother, it's the same everywhere; every human being has personal rights. Okay. Well, those personal rights belong to each individual. Go ahead, but do not bring the organization's name into it. That is not allowed. That is why I am doing this, brother. I am appointing an acting chairman so that I can go inactive while I am unavailable for the next 6 to 8 months. It is the same with

the corporation, brother. I also plan to take leave from the corporation, brother. I will take leave, unpaid leave, so that the day-to-day operations will be handled by my deputy president director and other directors. That is important, brother. This is very important. Why? Because I do not want to immediately take the TPN position without first resolving matters regarding my family, corporation, and the organization,

brother. Yes, to make it clear so that later. So, with that said, brother. Later, after this, if I am interviewed and asked if I am the chairman, I will say wait, I am currently inactive as the Kadin general chairman. So, I am not the active Kadin general chairman today. I will be the chairman of the national campaign team for Ganjar Pranowo. So, viewers need to be clear that today,

the filming is 2 days from when we filmed this; this Monday, 2 days from today, Mr. Arsad will be off for how many months? 6 to 8 months. 6 to 8 months as Kadin chairman. So, friends who want to invite him, please don't mention his Kadin title anymore. Okay. Just to make it clear, clear, right? Okay, I am helping to explain that to the public.

Because that is our governance; we must do that. We must respect that. That was regarding the team. The team. Now, let's talk about the ideas. Now, this is interesting. We noted here that Mr. Ganjar's ideas toward Indonesia Emas 2045 are based on three main program foundations. First is the multiplication of the budget, government digitalization, and corruption eradication. There are six

strategic pillars planned: food, environment, digital, energy, education , health, and law enforcement, and seven strategic programs. We always have notes when we talk about strategic matters like this. The seven strategic programs are building productive human resources, then stabilizing prices of basic commodities, and third is extreme poverty. Wow, this is extraordinary. Zero. Zero extreme poverty. So, no one is poor anymore. Then fourth,

strengthening the social safety net. H This is Mas Ganjar's program. Hm. The question is, how do we do it, Mas? It's like this, Sir. First, the person who can best explain this later is Mas Ganjar. Yes. Because we have to hear it directly from Mas Ganjar. Correct. So that it comes from his heart. That

is important. Yes. Now, like this, Bang. Bang, regarding how it will run, we have designed a process so that later, what I want is for the whole society to be able to see the future and see the development. So they can assess the KPIs, Bang. So we can have engagement, that's important, especially for the younger generation, for Gen X, millennials, for Gen Z, Gen A, and others, that

engagement is very important and it's vital to participate in the process. So , the method must be transparent. How can we be transparent? Well, first there are desired targets and we can see that moving towards them is doable, there are formulas for it. No, it's not just empty talk, no. Now, but we are also, let's say, focusing and detailing it further because later, Bang, we will eventually enter the stage at the KPU to provide our vision

and mission. Certainly. Right, Bang? That is what will be elaborated on later, right, the main elaboration according to these points. But indeed, what you described earlier as the nine strategic points are indeed things that are very important for this country. As an example, Bang, if you said earlier, "Wow, how can extreme poverty be overcome, China could do it, " right. How do we do that? I am sure

we can and there are steps for it. But for the social devices or what is called extreme poverty, what can overcome it, Bang? You need this, Bang. Hm. Agreed. Right? For this, what is needed? We need economic growth, we need investment to come in so that what? It can create jobs. Create jobs. Employment opportunities. Employment opportunities. From there, prosperity will follow. If not, it's difficult, it

can't happen. With investment, there is trade, and we get profit from there. So the point is, if there is no profit, Bang, there is no prosperity. Must be, right? Yes, of course, Bang. If there isn't, then what? We'll be in trouble. Now, back to how to do that? It is possible. Now, the main thing we must think about is what is needed by the people. Yes, Mas Ganjar has already stated that there. First, Mas Ganjar

has emphasized ensuring job availability. So, in that regard, Bang, what kind of investment is needed? Job creation. To create jobs. To create more entrepreneurs. Yes. For small and medium enterprises, everything, so that there are jobs. Then, Bang, what about the current situation? Mas Ganjar also said we must think about the people regarding what? Ensure that the prices of basic goods

do not rise. According to Mas Ganjar, yes. Yes, I asked why, Mas? It is very important, he said. Why? Obviously, Bang, so their lives are more prosperous. Now, for this, what about the current situation, Sir? Infrastructure has already been built, right, Bang? Yes, now how do we optimize this infrastructure so that productivity is higher, to make costs more efficient, so that, as mentioned earlier,

prices can be kept in check. Yes, Mr. Chairman, it’s like this. Sorry, Bang. Um, several media outlets have started raising issues about the program. Heh, of course that’s encouraging; it really should have reached that point. It must, it must, it must. In my opinion, if a presidential candidate's only capital is the ability to mobilize crowds to attend an event, it’s outdated.

In my opinion, come on. Let’s make our society understand the problems better, and that is our responsibility. Correct. On this part, I am sure the Chairman, Mr. Arsjad, agrees with me that this is the time for us to go further, to take several steps forward in how our presidential candidates introduce what they will do. Mas Ganjar, with these ideas of his, in my opinion, has started touching upon our problems.

But it does need detail; it’s certainly not easy and takes a long time to discuss. But at least there is already something in-depth, Mas. I, for example, regarding um, what? Energy, in point four, is a strategic pillar. Energy. Okay. Yes. For example, you are a person who really understands this.

What kind of energy are we talking about? Yes, I once visited Moscow; Moscow is a country where electricity costs are very cheap. Hh. I asked an Indonesian there, I asked how much do you pay each month for electricity that is this abundant? He said, "If converted, it's only 100,000 rupiah." What I want to say is this, there is a more advanced way of thinking that our candidates should

have, which can be understood as something doable in terms of energy planning. For instance, if we are to talk about energy, Mas Ganjar. Does Mas Ganjar agree on nuclear energy? But what appears to the public are invalid arguments claiming it is dangerous because of this and that, without any real answers. Because they always read about four, uh, nuclear accidents that have occurred on the surface of the earth. Two in Russia, one in America,

and the last one in Fukushima, Japan, in 2011. Without listening or wanting to listen to experts who say that was third-generation energy; now it is already the fifth generation. So then, when our nuclear power is accepted as something worthy for us to receive. Things like this, Mr. Chairman. Not to mention, for example, about, uh, digitalization; what kind of digitalization? In Jakarta alone, parking could be optimized, but it

turns out it's not. So what I mean is, I apologize for taking quite a bit of time on this part because I want it to be in-depth. I My forum here, I want to use it for that. So that is why, Mr. Arsad, please accept my respect because you are willing to be here to debate with me on things like this. I return as host. Could Mas Ganjar later detail this so that the pair you represent, that you

lead, can take a step forward so that we, the public, feel, oh okay. This is more feasible, more logical, something we can accept. Please, Mr. Chairman. First, it's like this, Mas. First, it must come from the heart and mind, Mas, yes. Okay. And that comes from Mas Ganjar's heart and mind. That is important, yes. And that exists. So this is an example like energy,

right, Brother? But like this, Brother. What matters is that he knows what the people want. I So he, because it's like this, Brother, he is a part of the people, Brother. I mean like this, Mas Ganjar's life, so to speak, is perhaps not like mine. I am perhaps better off, Brother. More fortunate. Fortunate. Thank God. Right

It's just that from his family, Brother , from when he was born, Brother, until today, right? His life struggle has been high. Okay. And he doesn't just know the problems of the, uh, people, Brother. Yes, maybe I, for example, "Brother, yes, I know this, Brother. But feeling it that's different, right, Brother? Mas Ganjar feels it in his life process because he went from being a common

person, sir, up to the top. I, perhaps, thank God, my parents were maybe middle class, where I had a somewhat different life. Yes. I feel that perhaps Mas Ganjar feels it more than I do, right? And feeling is important to make a decision because that is the voice of the people , the desire of the people, feeling how hard it is. Now, that is important. So, in that way, he is the one who understands the voice of the people, in

my opinion. Now, returning to the energy you mentioned earlier, Brother. We also must not get trapped into issues, yes. which are thrown out by various parties and sometimes from abroad. Okay Yes, these foreign parties are bringing all of this, especially since I don't want us to be pitted against each other , right? For instance, we were talking about energy earlier, nuclear and so on

, Brother. We have to think about this very deeply , Brother. I strongly agree with what you said, that it really must be deep, Brother. The question is, if we talk about energy, Brother, the first thing we must think about is energy security. Security. Safety rather than energy resilience. Very important, Brother. Yes, like it or not, as a country and as a nation, we must think about that. For example, I'll give an example.

Germany. Germany changed its energy structure. Eventually, they decided to just use gas. They decided to have no more coal. They decided, what happened? But what happened, Brother, with the Ukraine and Russia conflict? Oh, yes. They are suffering, they are confused, Brother. Because there is no energy source. They forgot. This is directly from them when I spoke to them, they forgot about their energy security.

Because they felt safe in Europe and all that. It's easy to get gas from Russia, easy to get food from Ukraine, so they thought it was easy. But in fact, with that conflict, their energy supply was overwhelmed. So, we must learn, and they even said they learned, Brother, Germany said," Wow, your number one priority is energy security, "they said. Now, we also have to think about that, Brother. If we want to think about our energy mix, we

have to think about what we want our future energy mix to be. Okay. It's not that I'm saying I'm one of those people pushing for green energy. I am pushing for it in the context of sustainable development, I encourage that. But as a nation and country, we also have to look at what our energy security is. For example, Brother, essentially we have the facts of coal, we have the facts of gas. We have the facts of geothermal, we have the facts of what

is called solar, we have what is called water. Brother, the fundamental question if we talk about nuclear that we must answer first , Brother. Do we have uranium? How much uranium do we have? How long will it last? So, when we think about that, we have to think about the end goal, Brother. Oh, yes. I yes. Right, Brother. So, what I mean is , I was being profound earlier, Brother

. So, I want to answer that in depth. Yes. No, what I mean is this, whatever it is, but my point is, we are talking about a campaign. Yes. Right? It is very exhausting. For decades since the reform, we've been hearing the same things shouted every 5 years, things shouted 5, 10, 15 years ago. I want it to be deep. Let's say, for example, regarding energy, if nuclear turns out to be risky or has

supply limitations, we have many other options. But what I mean is, Mr. Chairman, please. Yes. I represent PAI please bring my friend Mr. Ganjar to talk about things in more detail. Don't, don't get trapped in unnecessary popularity where all that matters is making people happy. Now, look here, I am currently in a

process with Mr. Ganjar. Also, how to study Mr. Ganjar. Okay. Right? How, what people's perceptions are and what is actually there regarding Mr. Ganjar himself. He's a very deep-thinking person. Oh, yes. Yes. And he really wants to look at details. He really wants to look at details. He wants to break things down. When discussing something, he goes into

detail, you know. Yes. He has so many questions. Yes. And he challenges. But the good thing is he can be challenged. No way, sir. Come on, we are like this. Now, this is important, you know, being able to discuss, being able to debate, and all that is important. Yes. That is to find the most appropriate

decision. That is what I mean, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Yes. How, of course, I worked on several laws with Ganjar before. He was chair of Commission II, I was a member of Commission II. So, but You also know that, right? Yes. But the point is, because I am talking to his team controller, I hope that these three presidential

candidates will eventually present to the public with applicable program issues that can be debated and so on and so forth. They can, I believe, sir. I I believe, I believe you can steer that . And that is without being steered by me , sir, so to speak. Yes, Mr. Ganjar also thinks that way, sir. Right? So I said I don't need to steer

him anymore, just prepare things. It's impossible for a Ganjar to know everything, sir. Correct. But our job is to provide that information for him to study, analyze, and think about. Correct. Right, sir? Yes. And that is what I mean, I have a lot—I like this vision and mission of Mr. Ganjar regarding the environment,

food, and everything else. We can discuss them one by one. That is what I mean. I want don't just invite him and ask," Hey, are you, is it true you like pornographic films, "and so on. Come on . Let it go, that's enough. It is so exhausting, you know. As if our only problem is just that. There are many other ethics-related matters; let's leave that for us to

reflect on ourselves. Two points regarding the coalition and the ideas have been left behind, Mr. Chairman. We are approaching the end of our discussion. People want to know this, Mr. Chairman. Yes. Who is Ganjar's running mate? What is this? Look here, brother. In the past, it was very rare—in my life , it has been rare for the VP to be a long-standing discussion. This time

this time it seems like it, right? Okay , it's okay, it's good, it's good. Why? This is a democratic learning process. So everyone is starting to think, and I am happy about that. Especially since there are so many candidates now, brother. I many of our friends are all there. I see many of the next generations there. Yes. It's good to have many choices. People

get confused sometimes saying," Wow, there are so many. "" Isn't it good if there are many choices? "Right? But in the end, it's like this, brother. Choosing a VP or a Presidential candidate, in my opinion, cannot be based on ratings alone. Yes. I am not saying ratings aren't important. Ratings are important. They must be. That is popularity, which eventually helps with electability.

But there is a fundamental question, brother, that is sometimes forgotten— two things. First, the presidential candidate must be asked as well, right? Yes. Isn't that right, brother? Correct. They will be their partner, as their running mate, and eventually their discussion partner, right? So first, there must be comfortability with someone like Mas Ganjar; that's

important for the candidate. Second, earlier we talked about building this through cooperation that must be accepted by all parties too. Okay. Right, brother? This is also a process. So for me, don't take it too lightly. But it is also important what was said about the numbers, right? Numbers are important. We look at the analysis of candidate A, B, and D. How are their ratings?

I heard the highest number around Mas Ganjar is Mr. Mahfud. Yes, don't just look at the high numbers, brother. Right? I'm not saying that no one is considered number two right now. Everyone is considered a candidate. Candidate. Everyone is a candidate, sir. Now, we are just starting to finalize it, right ? Looking at it from a different perspective. When?

It is being built right now, sir. I've only just started. Oh boy. Right? We are still collecting data. Okay, let's analyze it first, brother. We have our own analysis too. So, okay. But like business, brother. Business is sometimes a gut feeling, yeah. Instinct . Well, but before that, a businessman can't just rely on gut feeling. We have to look at the numbers. So, what we prepare is, in any decision, there are two sides, Bang. Subjective and

objective. Yeah, right. To be objective, the numbers must be put in. Not just numbers, but analysis based on public opinion, competencies, and all available perspectives. We lay it all out, Bang. I mean, we discuss it with the press, we'll discuss it with all the collaborating parties, right? Why? And it’s important, Bang. In my opinion, if I were a CEO and there was a change

in the next CEO, right? Usually, the board of commissioners asks me too," Sir, who is a suitable replacement for you? "Right, Bang. Because it’s a matter of continuation. Yeah. Right? So it’s natural, I think, if the President is also involved in the discussion. Why? I mean, he is the CEO of Indonesia today. That's interesting. Right?

And this isn't about his status as anything else. He is the CEO of Indonesia today. As the team leader, will you request, involve, or speak with the President regarding Mr. Ganjar's deputy? I think it’s natural, Bang. Okay, natural. Why? As I said, even a company discussing the next CEO with the current one is standard, Bang. I am always consulted, for example, when

appointing a subsidiary CEO. This. I said," But in a good way, Bang. "This isn't about being dismissed." Like that, right? "I call that CEO. I ask," Hey, who do you think is suitable to replace you in the future? " It’s said that President Jokowi wasn't consulted. I’m not saying that. Thank you. I mean, I’m asking, was President Jokowi, let’s say, not consulted when Mr. Ganjar was a presidential candidate

? Oh, Bang. First off, I think there definitely was a discussion, Bang. But here's the thing, Bang. I can't answer that because at that time I was not yet I was not part of that process. Right? It’s fair for me to say that, right, Bang? But it’s important for me, like I said, as a CEO, when the next CEO is coming in, we must ask the current one," What

do you need? "That’s only natural, especially when talking about continuity. Continuity, because no matter what, Bang, we can't have no continuity; there must be continuity. Why? Otherwise, Bang, investors will be shocked, everything will be in disarray , sir. Yes. Shocked. Lastly, Mr. Chairman. Yes.

Whatever you call it, that team leader role is a high-stakes position. Expensive, what's expensive, brother? Once you've won later. Oh, it will take a very central position. Hm. I have to ask this question. Where do you imagine yourself being when Mas Ganjar and his running mate, whoever it may be, win the fight. Whether as a Coordinating Minister, Minister, or

something else. Brother, my life, brother, has always been this way. I have never thought about positions. Okay. Never in my life. When I became Kadin chairman, I didn't know I would become Kadin chairman. I didn't know, at that time I didn't know, brother. I believe in one thing. If I focus on working, working hard, then God, the Almighty, will provide a path for me. So we can,

you know, want whatever, it's human, but ultimately we decide by following what is above, brother, right? Mr. Chairman, that's certain, but what I mean is, there are notes made by some of Mas Arsat's friends. h becoming a minister, there's Sandi, there's Erick, there's your juniors, Bahlil, Rosan, right. If that choice or offer comes or that right is given to you, will you use it?

Brother, first of all, now we focus first, win first. Win first, right. That's for later, we'll think about it. Yeah, later. But the most important thing is that I took this position not because of the office . I want to make that clear, brother. Because I always take on something only if I believe in it, and I say I want to take it, I take it, and now I've taken this position. Right? A very big

decision in my life. That's all. Very big, brother. So, I want to focus first. My job right now. Clearly, the PT is PT Winning right, national. GP. GP. Okay. So, my KPI is to win. Once we win, then we can talk. Fair enough, brother. Mr. Chairman.

Yes, brother. Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. Uh, again I have to praise and thank you for being willing to speak to the public, one of which is through my forum. He. Um, in my opinion, it really should be like that. How can you be liked if you don't speak to the public? Correct. Especially if you only speak to be heard by those who think well of

you. And, uh, throughout the hour we've talked, there are many new things, and it seems to require further discussion so that we can have a deeper, in-depth discussion. I totally agree. So the public can see it more clearly. Brother, I totally agree, and I think this is our learning process, right, brother? America has been a democratic country for hundreds of years. Okay. We are still how old, brother? 77 years old, right.

We are in the process of learning democracy. Now, this is part of the maturing of our democracy and it is part of educating, especially for the next generation, Bang. That's right. Agreed. That's it, Sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Emm, viewers, that was my discussion with the chairman of Ganjar Pranowo's winning team, the national campaign team chair who is also a public official. It shows

how moderate he is. It is clear how eager he is to have this team talk more with all parties. We wait to see what the results are and how they will be translated. Once again, in this program , I translate something that we have been doing here from the start, called conversing with one another. One. May I, Bang? Before you close, go ahead. I ask for your blessing, Bang. From you , and from everyone watching this.

Because there is no one else, Bang. I am asking for prayers. Yes, the most important thing for me is how, first, the Indonesian people win and of course, because I chose Ganjar, how Mas Ganjar can win. Okay, understood, Mr. Chairman. That is all for now, viewers, until we meet again.